The Tim K LRP Qualifying Story

[Andy Bettencourt]

For th sake of arguement, IT has never been stronger and SM is the largest class in National right now. How many have jumped to SM from undersubscribed classes to actually race every weekend?

[lateapex911]

Well Matt, if what you say is true (and I trust your presentation as far as I can throw a loaded refridgerator), what are you going to DO about it??

What ACTION will you take?

More whining? More insulting? More attacking anyone that dares disagree? More posts from the biggest chronic malcontent/complainer this or most other BBSs have ever seen?

According to you, you know best, you know everything that everybody is doing wrong...and you know all about everything. If you're so good, pick a problem, any problem, and fix it. Post when you've actually accomplished something.

Or get off the pot.

[Ed Funk]

Don't hold back Jake, you're being much too gentle!

[BobsAuto]

That's a blind rationalization Bob.

--Oh, BTW, Bob cannot use the computer as he cannot see the words. So, don't assume that when the signature has two names that it's the guy answering. --

You're simply guessing and you have NO data to back up your specualations.

--Blind? No, realistic. Data, plenty. For instance, more people came without their campers to NHIS than with to the NASCAR event because they couldn't afford the gas. MANY had for sale signs. Yes, the crowds were still their, but in car pools and two or three families to a camper as opposed to one family to a camper or driving up alone. Oh yes, and those who have had tickets for years but needed to sell them and were in LINE to sell them at the track so they could afford gas for work...--

It's people like you that blindly follow the morons that get elected and make excuses for them when they fail that has put us in this position.

--I make no excuses for no one. I don't BLINDLY follow the "morons" who got elected. Personally, I never voted for the idiots that presently run the country. --

THe economy? Paaalease. My IBM stock I bought three years ago is still worth more than 50% of the strike from three years ago.
Guess you wouldn't know what a fixed income is. Or what's it's like to have your IRA loose money 2 years in a row....or not be able to cover medical costs because your HMO won't cover it or can't afford your medications because they aren't APPROVED by your HMO.....I forgot, you live in CA and live in the "perfect" world out there. --


You're talking out your butt with layman speculation spouting off opinions on topics you obviously know nothing about.

--Am I a layman? No more so than you are. Talking out of my butt? Never. --

THe only big change in the economy is a bunch of idiots who were paying $800 a month for an interest only ARM on houses they couldn't afford in the first place and are now looking at a BK. THey aren't racers.

--Oh, Really? You REALLY don't have a clue about anything, do you? I know many a racer who is paying that and more and are racers or former racers who can't afford to run anymore because a house over their heads is more important than the hobby. --

And as far as the Iraq conflict causing 40% + decreases in SCCA participation? Are you on drugs?

--No, I am NOT on drugs. I know of two drivers who were intending to build cars here in Loudon and could not because they are now in Iraq. There's 40% of one town of racers alone. --

That's insane specualtion. Please back that up. I'd bet there aren't 5 racers in Iraq.


--Gee, I guess my step-son must have lied to me when he was there and met a few....--
Simply nonsense.

Do you think it's right for a worker's dog and three year old kid to vote in an election for an organization where a third party provides 100% of all the supporting funds?

--For a matter of fact, I must say that I agree with you on this one simple point. I also agree with the general consensus that you are an egotistical maniac who, from my humble opinion and with my knowledge of many disorders feel you are either manic depressive or bi-polar. I can just picture you at your computer ranting and turning red with the temper tantrums everytime you write. Might I suggest you see one of the many psychiatrists that race in SCCA and get some counselling? As I said, grow up and well, nevermind. Oh, yeh, as Jake said, What ARE you going to DO about it? --
[/b]

[Mattberg]

You really need to look beyond your backyard window to get the bigger picture. You made some typical rationalization comments. First, people "intending to build cars"... I wish I had a dime for every time I heard that one. Pure fiction. People who talk about it rarely get to the track. The ones who do are few and far between Second, the fixed income argument... You really shouldn't be involved in racing if that's the case. It's an expensive hobby. But the club is catering to those people and the results are what we have now which was the original point. We try and protect investments and make it possible for those old junkers to keep running competitively and nurture those who can't afford $100 for gas. Meanwhile, we push the growth element off to other organizations. I think you've allowed your own personal situation and perhaps a few others close to you generate your overall view.

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. Look for other organizations and keep my SCCA membership for as long as the club stays afloat. I personally can't fix the problems and certainly can't fight the masses who control the club and have steered it in a terrible direction. I can bring the facts to light and see if it can generate change.

You want some changes that will keep the drivers now being lost to other organizations? Here's a couple of suggestions:

1. Leave the racing to the racers. No worker or official protests.
2. Revise voting. One vote per paid license.
3. Reduce the number of classes. Combine and consolidate.
4. Create a CoA of drivers only.
5. Create an event based CoA of 6 participating drivers selected randomly that carry final word over any protests.
6. Create policy that at least 6 active drivers sit on the BoD.
7. Reduce insurance benefits and coverage for non-drivers/workers.
8. Eliminate membership fees for workers.
9. Open up the books in Topeka.
10. Eliminate the National convention and SCCA University
11. Pay workers but not officials unless they also work a specialty.
12. Universal common internet entry system and common software for every region
13. Universal live timing and scoring
14. All safety issues to be determined by driver CoA.
15. The BoD may not meet or talk with anyone related to business operations of the club.


That would be a start.

[Mattberg]

...and one other I forgot:

Add regional classes to the participation formula for the Runoffs 24 classes. At our club's showcase event I'd rather see a good IT battle than 12 CSRs with two of them lapping the field.

[benspeed]

Well Mattberg, I have goofed on you a bit on this site but I did run across and example of worker excess that now makes me appreciate your perspective a little. I was going to grid for a hardship run at Watkins Glen and was unaware that you needed a special hardship coupon to get on track. Nothing in the supps about that. I was suited up and ready to go and they wouldn't let me on track. I did bitch the policy was BS and I'd never heard of such a thing before. Then they told me to back up and get off grid in a very insulting manner. I began to back up and at the last second noticed the wing of a FC car directly behind me and nearly ran the guy over. The grid workers totally walked away from me and I was unable to see anything with a hans on in a full sized SPO stocker. Totally unsafe situation.

When I did finally get off grid (without any help from the grid workers) I came back and politely introduced myself and told the grid workers that I thought they had been very unsafe in how they handled me and my car on grid. Not only did the guy start shaking his finger right in my face and calling me a "young fella" (I'm 41) he told me he was going to write me up and I wouldn't be able to race.

I reiterated I was not pleased with the way they handled grid and said they should be more careful and walked off.

20 minutes later I am summoned to the tower over the loudspeakers. Fortunately the Chief Steward was a totally reasonable guy (Bill) and asked me for my side of the story first. He then apologized about what happened at grid and asked me to apologize to the workers - which I did because he asked me to and what does it really take to say sorry even if you think you did nothing wrong. (I was accused of disrespecting an official when I said the policy was BS - grow a thicker skin worker.)

So the end of the day the worker was looking to ruin my race weekend over nothing. Makes me think less of the workers and why they "volunteer". I know not everybody who is a worker doesn't shove thier hand in your face and try to screw up your weekend but I would rather race with workers who are paid and don't get to screw with you. Volunteerism is a home for many malfunctions and we seem to collect many.

At the NNJR board where I volunteer - nothing but top talent and great people to work with. I don't know what to think of the grid worker other than I should not let this one person prejudice my opinion of the others.

[lateapex911]

At the NNJR board where I volunteer - nothing but top talent and great people to work with. I don't know what to think of the grid worker other than I should not let this one person prejudice my opinion of the others.
[/b]

Well, that's EXACTLY the situation. One bad apple can really piss you off! But you have to remember, that usually, if you deal with it rationally, you'll find the person up the ladder to listen, and often get steamed when they hear your side.

When I read about your situation, I thought about it happening at the tracks we run..can you imagine Karen or any grid worker acting like that?? I can't.

Of course bad things happen....in all organizations. But I think it's usually an exception to the rule in the SCCA. And as such, working from within the system can help rectify it, as you've done.

[Bill Miller]

Ben,

Was it an SCCA worker, or was it a Race Communications worker? BTW, you want to hear how workers shove their weight around, go read the thread on the Prod board about paddock speed.

[JohnRW]

For those keeping a 'Mattberg as Hamlet' journal, we have the following Mattberg post from specmiata.com, posted 02-03-2005 at 3:32 PM:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MattBerg)</div>

Thanks Jim. You hit the button. And to be clear I&#39;m not citing or alleging malfeasance...Just want to get an idea about how the money is handled. I don&#39;t think that&#39;s asking too much. Especially considering that our recent elections have put people with virtually NO finance experience in place. To be told it&#39;s none of my business bothers me.

As a result I am going to run for the BoD and although I&#39;m pretty sure they&#39;ll kick me out if I win, I&#39;ve been told by enough people to shit or get off the pot
[/b]

Static & noise. All I hear is static and noise. When will it all go away ? Enough of the &#39;savior/martyr&#39; crap...I&#39;m thinking &#39;egotistic megalomaniac&#39;.

Hamlet.

[lateapex911]

For those keeping a &#39;Mattberg as Hamlet&#39; journal,[/b]

LOL...like I have that kind of storage space on my computer! Sheesh!! I&#39;ve only got 100Gig Hard drive!

Enough of the &#39;savior/martyr&#39; crap...I&#39;m thinking &#39;egotistic megalomaniac&#39;.

Hamlet.
[/b]

Well, that&#39;s a nice fancy uptown/educated term for it......

[JohnRW]

Well, that&#39;s a nice fancy uptown/educated term for it......
[/b]

I figured that the moderators might disapprove if I wrote "shit-head".

[RKramden]

Race Communications worker[/b]

Boy, I haven&#39;t heard about RCA in a long, long time.

They used to be big back when the Glen had the F1 race.

You had to show up for uniform inspection each day, and you had to have the number of days you had worked on your sholder with boy scout numbers. No kidding.

Your "flagger whites" had to be clean and PRESSED, no rips or tears, all the right patches and emblems, and a red hat. Had to have the red baseball cap. It was a BIG DEAL.

We used to call them Red Capped Assh$#@&.

I have a pile of "RCA" storries. Ask me next time you see me drinking a beer.

D

[benspeed]

Well, that&#39;s EXACTLY the situation. One bad apple can really piss you off! But you have to remember, that usually, if you deal with it rationally, you&#39;ll find the person up the ladder to listen, and often get steamed when they hear your side.

When I read about your situation, I thought about it happening at the tracks we run..can you imagine Karen or any grid worker acting like that?? I can&#39;t.

Of course bad things happen....in all organizations. But I think it&#39;s usually an exception to the rule in the SCCA. And as such, working from within the system can help rectify it, as you&#39;ve done.
[/b]

I can&#39;t imagine folks on our grids doing that kind of deal - I&#39;ve never had any kind of weird situation at grid and always feel like procedure is so synchronized and well planned. You don&#39;t see people waving their hands and telling you to back up while other cars are coming up to grid behind you.

Never the like in my experience.

[RSTPerformance]

Matt-

You really need to look beyond your backyard window to get the bigger picture. You made some typical rationalization comments. [/b]

Look beyond your own backyard... You don&#39;t have the best grass, the best garage, or even the best dog either... ok maybe you do, I will never come to visit so I wont know.

First, people "intending to build cars"... I wish I had a dime for every time I heard that one. Pure fiction. People who talk about it rarely get to the track. The ones who do are few and far between [/b]

Agreed most people don&#39;t build a car, but those that do are the ones we play with every weekend. Each person who is "intending to build a car" are some of our best hopes for "new membership." Those are the ones we need to push just a little further and show them how much fun we can be.

Second, the fixed income argument... You really shouldn&#39;t be involved in racing if that&#39;s the case. It&#39;s an expensive hobby. But the club is catering to those people and the results are what we have now which was the original point. We try and protect investments and make it possible for those old junkers to keep running competitively and nurture those who can&#39;t afford $100 for gas. Meanwhile, we push the growth element off to other organizations. I think you&#39;ve allowed your own personal situation and perhaps a few others close to you generate your overall view. [/b]

If you are on a fixed income you may be our best members... You might not race but we can certainly use the help, and we will give you a good show for a bonus!!!

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. Look for other organizations and keep my SCCA membership for as long as the club stays afloat. I personally can&#39;t fix the problems and certainly can&#39;t fight the masses who control the club and have steered it in a terrible direction. I can bring the facts to light and see if it can generate change. [/b]

Your not going to do anything cause you suck.

You want some changes that will keep the drivers now being lost to other organizations? Here&#39;s a couple of suggestions:

1. Leave the racing to the racers. No worker or official protests.
You really need to get into that SIT program and get a clue... whats the problem? nobody wants to be your mentor?

2. Revise voting. One vote per paid license.
Agreed

3. Reduce the number of classes. Combine and consolidate.
Agreed, however the "poster clubs" that you WISH we were have more classes than we do. Everytime someone new shows up who isn&#39;t competitive those clubs just make a new class.

4. Create a CoA of drivers only.
Again you really need to get into that SIT program and get a clue... whats the problem? nobody wants to be your mentor?

5. Create an event based CoA of 6 participating drivers selected randomly that carry final word over any protests.
[b]Again you really need to get into that SIT program and get a clue... It is amaizingly difficult to race and be on the SOM. It certainly takes a VERY dedicated person to do that. If you want people who are not racing that weekend good luck... MOST of the drivers do not go to races that they are not competing in, and if they do it is to sociolize, not work. (Everyone don&#39;t get mad at me, I said MOST, not ALL!!!)

6. Create policy that at least 6 active drivers sit on the BoD.
Possibly a good idea, but again, find 6 drivers willing to go that extra mile. Also prove to me by giving examples of current BOD members who are not performing a good job? I am not aware of "the bad ones."

7. Reduce insurance benefits and coverage for non-drivers/workers.
I would not reduce the benefit as anyone can get hurt, however I would be interested to see if the plan charges different rates for the different "duties" depending on risk?

8. Eliminate membership fees for workers.
Agreed

9. Open up the books in Topeka.
You can&#39;t please everyone, this will only open up issues that don&#39;t need to be open. And honestly I am more concerned about my local region and I get involved so I also keep myself informed.

10. Eliminate the National convention and SCCA University
Agreed... Others that post here, can you tell me the "benefit" of either one?

11. Pay workers but not officials unless they also work a specialty.
Paying workers will only loose more money for the club. While I would love to see workers paid a $$$ amount I don&#39;t think it is feasable. However I must say NER does a great job at paying "worker bucks" as well as rafling off the worker fund at the end of each day. Personaly though I do think that the worker fund could generate more money if it was handled differently.

12. Universal common internet entry system and common software for every region
Agreed

13. Universal live timing and scoring
Agreed

14. All safety issues to be determined by driver CoA.
Again you really need to get into that SIT program and get a clue... whats the problem? nobody wants to be your mentor?

15. The BoD may not meet or talk with anyone related to business operations of the club.
That would be a start.
What???

16. Add regional classes to the participation formula for the Runoffs 24 classes. At our club&#39;s showcase event I&#39;d rather see a good IT battle than 12 CSRs with two of them lapping the field.
Some days I agree woth you and some days I don&#39;t

Interesting that I agreed with you that some of the above are things we could do better, however they certainly are not things that turn our membership away. People like you is a far better example of what pushes people away.

Those issues that I don&#39;t agree with you I honestly think it is because sometimes I have a clue and you don&#39;t have a clue. Those areas if you were to only do something and volunteer you could "get a clue" Do IT ALREDY!!!

Raymond

oh and PS: I am one of those poor racers who can&#39;t afford to get IBM stocks because I race, and I am running a POS car, so you must think I shouldn&#39;t be racing and/or that I have no right to be in our club. I have my $$$ in the right places and my talent still in good shape... I would challenge you anyday. bring it

[BobsAuto]

Boy, Raymond, You said it so well!

I bet his teachers couldn&#39;t stand him in school either!

[RSTPerformance]

Boy, Raymond, You said it so well!

I bet his teachers couldn&#39;t stand him in school either!
[/b]

Many teachers couldn&#39;t stand me in school either...

While most of us disagree with Matt on everything remember to look at things with an open mind and realize

1. He is NOT from our region and his problems probably stem from his local region. He has clearly stated that when he was younger he didn&#39;t feel SCCA had many of these issues... When he was younger he came from the Northeast. I think if he were here today he might have a different opinion on many things.

2. He has brought up sever points that we could work on as a "National Organization." - let me restate, SCCA Localy to my region (NER) is not a region I think needs changes... NER IMO does a fantastic job and other regions should come and learn from us if they are having problems.

And lastly mom I got to call you on it... just posting that "I said it so well" would have been enough, we (including me) don&#39;t need the one line bashes that follow every statement.

Raymond

PS: you might wonder where my new found love for matt coming from???? First, its not love and I still wish he would stop posting negative comments about our wonderful club and back of his envolvement and just come and race and be done with it. However I will admit we had a private conversatin about a list of things that he has run up against with SCCA, unfortunatly I wasn&#39;t able to argue any of the issues for two reasons... 1. I have no information either way if he is tellig the truth or not but more importantly 2. I could see all of his problems throughout the years actually happaning.

[BobsAuto]

Many teachers couldn&#39;t stand me in school either...

I mostly disagree with that, but then again, you must know better...
And lastly mom I got to call you on it... just posting that "I said it so well" would have been enough, we (including me) don&#39;t need the one line bashes that follow every statement.

Yes, you are right. I DID lower myself on that one.

PS: you might wonder where my new found love for matt coming from???? First, its not love and I still wish he would stop posting negative comments about our wonderful club and back of his envolvement and just come and race and be done with it. However I will admit we had a private conversatin about a list of things that he has run up against with SCCA, unfortunatly I wasn&#39;t able to argue any of the issues for two reasons... 1. I have no information either way if he is tellig the truth or not but more importantly 2. I could see all of his problems throughout the years actually happaning.
[/b]

[b]It has been mentioned to me by several people you have worked with in the SIT program that anything you say is well thought out and with basis. I agree, Matt should come and see what NER is doing right and maybe he would see that maybe that the problems he is encountering are possibly not part of SCCA as a whole. NER does do a fantastic job and the people involved with NER, drivers, workers, AND officials have worked hard to make it a fun place to play. Keep up the good work that you, yourself, do. You are a credit to the organization.

Mom, your sometimes "dumb" one at that.

[benspeed]

Ben,

Was it an SCCA worker, or was it a Race Communications worker? BTW, you want to hear how workers shove their weight around, go read the thread on the Prod board about paddock speed.
[/b]

Hi Bill,

I missed your question - it was an SCCA worker. I won&#39;t name the guy cause that wouldn&#39;t be cool.

Cheers,

BP

[jjjanos]

You want some changes that will keep the drivers now being lost to other organizations? Here&#39;s a couple of suggestions:

1. Leave the racing to the racers. No worker or official protests.[/b]

Ah yes. Have a driver mow down a flagger and receive no penalty. Have a driver be verbally abusive and possibly physically abusive and receive no penalty. Why? Because no other driver was involved.

I&#39;ve flagged NASA events and frankly, I&#39;ve never seen a bigger bunch of idiots in my life. Drivers blowing two red flags - one of which was being displayed by a flagger leaping in the air (and later commented on by spectators in the stands) and locking their brakes when they realize that there are a half dozen cars stopped in front of them. I ended up with 7! cars sitting in the grass because they didn&#39;t realize they had to stop until they saw the stopped traffic. Thank gawd the grass had dried by that point otherwise it would have been total mayhem.

3. Reduce the number of classes. Combine and consolidate.[/b]

Entirely counter-productive to your purpose. You&#39;ve either made one group of cars very uncompetitive or you&#39;ve significantly increased the cost to one or both classes you&#39;ve consolidated - I&#39;ve either got to buy lots of go fast parts to race with the guys in the faster class or I need to buy go slow parts to be legal.

4. Create a CoA of drivers only.[/b]

And what do you do when you cannot find sufficient number of drivers both qualified and willing to serve? Active drivers only or any one who once held a license?

6. Create policy that at least 6 active drivers sit on the BoD.[/b]

And since the BoD is elected by geographical area, how do you decide which area gets stuck electing someone they don&#39;t want just because he has a license? Please define "active"... currently licensed? run more than 5 races each year? someone who is your good friend?

7. Reduce insurance benefits and coverage for non-drivers/workers.[/b]

Which does what to keep DRIVERS from leaving? Or do you think that the marginal cost of this insurance coverage will keep people within the club?

15. The BoD may not meet or talk with anyone related to business operations of the club. [/b]

And thus the purpose of the BoD (you know, the folks who RUN the freaking organization) would be what?