The Tim K LRP Qualifying Story

[Mattberg]

This wouldn't be the famous incident where your brother, John Weisberg, ignored (I know, "allegedly" ) a stop command and drove onto a closed track at the Runoffs in Mid Ohio, is it? Might the sanctions be due to the huge altercation and screaming match that ensued? (Which I understand you were involved in) Reports from non involved observers (not workers) listed that one as quite the spectical!
[/b]

Well there you go Jake. You understand I was involved? Where did you hear that? I was in no way involved and never said a word nor was I accused of doing so or written up. I was with the car getting ready to bring it back to the paddock. You can add whomever said I was involved to those that would lie to make their point or protect their buddies and not hesitate to abuse the system.

[RKramden]

The fact that you don't consider NASA "pro" racing and that you make a distinct differentiation is indication of the problem.[/b]

If the problem is your lack of understanding, then I would agree. Have a look at this page to see what my local NASA group thinks they are all about. That's not "Pro" racing at all. Heck, most of what they run isn't even racing, never mind "pro" racing.

You don't respect the drivers in the same way and that's a big issue for me and I think a lot of workers and officials feel the same way as you do. That's a problem IMHO.[/b]

Matt, Matt, Matt. What are we going to do. Because I didn't think of NASA as "Pro" racing, suddenly, you throw a few assumptions into the pot, toss in a couple off the wall conclusions, and spice the whole thing up with a leap of logic or two. Stir it about and you have soup. So, "Nasa isn't pro" equates to "Dave doesn't respect drivers." Astounding. All that throwing, tossing, and leaping, which you seem to keep doing at such a high rate, must keep you quite fit.

I respect drivers like Dick, Jake, TIm, Greg, and many others quite a bit. Yes, there are some drivers I have no respect for but they are the minority by far. Yes, there are officials I respect and as with drivers there are some officials I have no respect for. Respect isn't about being a "driver" or being an "official". Having the title of "Driver" or "Steward" does not demand respect. Nor should it.

All told, I probably respect a higher percentage of drivers than other groups of club racing participants, like officials or crew. Stewards, as a sub-set of officials, probably get the least. I'm sure that dickita15 would gladly confirm that.

I watched the greatest farce I've ever witnessed a few years back when at least ten workers LIED in their testimony to protect another worker's misdeeds and an official's need to go after a specific driver. The audacity to do such can only come from lack of respect for what we ("amateur" drivers) are and do. I read the reports and ten workers claimed a driver drove on a cold track, yet there were six cars behind him when he came in including two others that were called into black flag BEHIND him. Only the one driver was sanctioned. Please explain that. [/b]

Thanks for the eloquent proof of who lacks respect for whom. These topics, and the ones in other forums are replete with such proof. Thank you, really, thank you for providing oh so much proof.

As for the event you allude to (Page 308, center column, bottom), it must have been some kind of conspiracy. Some vast underground conspiracy that the whole club execpt you knows all about. Maybe the Republicans are behind it. Or maybe Arlo Guthrie is behind it, and really wants everyone to sing a chorus of "Alice's Resturant". In harmony. With fealing.

I've changed my mind. The safeguards aren't worth it. Even in schools. Let the instructors take care of it. Workers are there for ONE thing. If they don't like it, walk away. But most do and it's why they're out there. It's why I did it. I NEVER would protest a driver, EVER if I weren't on track. But some think it makes them more a part of the action... peer level, important. That's ruining the club. It's becoming a status club not a racing club. I say change the protest rules.
[/b]

All because I don't think of NASA, an organization that seems to mostly run HPDE events, time trials, autocrosses, drifting, and other such events, as "Pro" racing? It is amazing. Simply amazing.

Also, ad hominem attacks so belittle your argument.

Since you appear to have such major issues with just about everything in how the club operates, then please feel free to not pay your dues for the next year. As someone recently said: "If [you] don't like it, walk away."

[Mattberg]

You ignore the facts Dave and the basis for my argument. Someone within the worker/official community is making claims that I was involved in something where I clearly wasn't. That one would be willing to lie and/or pass along that lie to others is a sign of the lack of respect for participants on the driver side and also a sign of the worker/official community being separate from the driver community. It's un unfortunate wedge created by what I believe is everything from jealousy to ego. To not believe it's there is naive. We've all seen it. I only wish to see it removeed as an aspect or impact on the actual racing.

The flagger that protested Tim had a right to do so but no place in doing it. He was a spectator protesting technique. That's a formula for chaos. That right must be restricted. Racers are the show. We've turned it into event run by hall monitors who feel they need to exercise their rights in order to feel good. They have little respect for the racers who provide the product and feel they need to display their peer level status. THat's all it is. THey wouldn't do it at a pro event. That's the point.

[lateapex911]

...... Someone within the worker/official community is making claims that I was involved in something where I clearly wasn't.....
[/b]

Where do you get that??? I merely related that it was observed that there was a huge screaming session, and I understood that you were involde, but I guess not.(although maybe you should have been, pulling John away).

Nobody said anything about an official....and ....oh nevermind.

Honestly..... does anyone buy the tortured and trumped up pablum that you spew??

[Mattberg]

Where do you get that??? I merely related that it was observed that there was a huge screaming session, and I understood that you were involde, but I guess not.(although maybe you should have been, pulling John away).

Nobody said anything about an official....and ....oh nevermind.

Honestly..... does anyone buy the tortured and trumped up pablum that you spew??
[/b]

I did pull John away. That was my involvement. No one was pulling back the obscenity spewing official Peter Olivola. The other workers and officials actually seemed to be enjoying it. Bunch of people eho complain about $100 to enjoy doing what they do while we're spending $10,000 to provide the medium. Nice. Ask Peter if he got expense money to be there. Bet he did.

As far as buying the conspiracy that occured I could care less if you do or don't. It happenened and it's in the past. I know that it happenend and it can happen again. Workers and officials now run the club. They have proven to me that they will go to any lengths to support their own and we as drivers are on our own.

Jake you like to argue with me but the facts are that the club is no longer ours. Paupers with nothing more than a passing interest can protest us. Makes them feel good. THey can ruin a $80K investment with a single lie and get it backed up by ten people just based on the fact that I have more money than they do and the jealousy of such. Makes them feel better. I've seen it happen first hand so don't tell me it can't happen.

There are four levels of people. Those who do it. Those who want to do it but can't for financial reasons. Those who simply don't want to take the risk, financially or phyiscally. Those who would like to do it but physically can't. Anyone other than those who do it should honor the fact there are people that do it so they can enjoy it. But they don't. They want to be part of the action. It's sad but true.

[Gary L]

Paupers with nothing more than a passing interest can protest us. Makes them feel good. THey can ruin a $80K investment with a single lie and get it backed up by ten people just based on the fact that I have more money than they do and the jealousy of such. Makes them feel better. [/b]

Well, ya gotta love it... an elitist racer, driving an SSC Neon.

[lateapex911]

I

Jake you like to argue with me..................
[/b]

No, I merely am stupid enought to attempt to provide an alternative view that isn't trumped up BS.

Did you ever wonder why John was sanctioned yet nobody else was in the incident you refer to, when you state 6 others committed the same offense??

Hint:

It's the same reason you find that 90% of the people roll their eyes when they read your posts.

[Mattberg]

No, I merely am stupid enought to attempt to provide an alternative view that isn't trumped up BS.

Did you ever wonder why John was sanctioned yet nobody else was in the incident you refer to, when you state 6 others committed the same offense??

Hint:

It's the same reason you find that 90% of the people roll their eyes when they read your posts.
[/b]

You just admitted to everthing I've said. Abuse. Not only that. You endorse the abuse.

[lateapex911]

You just admitted to everthing I've said. Abuse. Not only that. You endorse the abuse.
[/b]

Oooooooo..
Shiver me timbers............






I'm done.


cheers~

[RKramden]

Oooooooo..
Shiver me timbers............[/b]

I think Matt might be from Bizarro.

[lateapex911]

I think Matt might be from Bizarro.
[/b]

Lol...gotcha...here's a quote from Bizarro:

Though Bizarro acts in what he believes to be the best manner, his Bizarro logic often causes him to act for evil.[/b]

[benspeed]

I just keep coming back to this thread because this mattberg character is funnier than the comics. My eyes hurt from the contant rolling

Jake - you win the patient parent award - case of beer says you have kids at home. My 8 year old son was reading some of the "writings" with me and he said, "dad, this guy sounds very unhappy. He thinks people are after him".

[dickita15]

WOW that is one heck of a smart 8 year old.

[benspeed]

Looks like Mattberg was run off by an 8 year old kid....

[lateapex911]

Sometimes kids have the clearest vision, and it's hard to argue with that!

[BobsAuto]

Perhaps an alien in disguise? Trying to get into our heads? I think we are all too strong.

[RSTPerformance]

Perhaps an alien in disguise? Trying to get into our heads? I think we are all too strong.
[/b]

Sorry but What???? lol


Raymond "your son" Blethen

[Mattberg]

I just keep coming back to this thread because this mattberg character is funnier than the comics. My eyes hurt from the contant rolling

Jake - you win the patient parent award - case of beer says you have kids at home. My 8 year old son was reading some of the "writings" with me and he said, "dad, this guy sounds very unhappy. He thinks people are after him".
[/b]

Just tell your son that I only hope he has the same opportunity that I did, to grow up around real racing, race fans and people not looking to build or protect their egos and someday participate in it. WIth a club now run and dominated by non-driving officials, stewards and non-road racers that may not be in his future. That to me is sad. Here's how the official/worker centric elected officials are doing:

National racing percentage gain/loss for the year:

FM -1
SRF -4
DSR -7
HP -9
GP -10
GT-3 -12
GT-1 -13
CSR -16
EP -16
FF -16
GT-2 -17
T-1 -19
FV -24
FA -26
SSC -26
T-2 -27
FP -27
FC -27
S2 -40
SSB -40
AS -41
GT-L -44
F500 -50

Nice job. Maybe the worst performance of any management group ever assembled. That's why you don't elect secretaries and welders to the BOD regardless of how good an SCCA official she or he might be. It's a multi million dollar operation. BUt workers and officials dominate the vote. Imagine having a company with 25+ products and every single one of them realized a loss. THrow in a major litigation loss due to lack of knowledge of how to run an organization and STUPID actions that I warned them about prior to when they violated and became liable, ( I sent a letter and legal brief to BoD member Eric Skirmants on the risks of BoD involvement in operations and the theoretical application of Surbannes Oxley principles to non profits, backed up with an article on the same topic from the Harvard Law Review, which was obviously ignored) and the writing is pretty much on the wall. For the eight year old who listens in here... I told them not to put a wire in the electrical socket but they still wanted to try it thinking they'd get a gumball.

Voting rights, family memberships and multiple votes, three year olds and dogs voting (I know of a worker who has his wife, dog and three year old son on his family membership and votes their votes. One man four votes), workers protesting drivers for on track competition issues, officials making rules who know nothing about racing, officials protesting other officials for not handing out severe enough penalties (that one really irks me. Fritz Baker should be taken out and flogged) Idiots refusing to classify cars to protect their friend's interests and standing, secretaries and layman with no practical experience getting voted to the BoD... all things that are pushing educated, informed drivers with readily disposabale income away to other organizations. We are cultivating the paupers and budget racers and losing the high profile racers. It's actually becoming more cost effective and more fun and hassle free to go pro racing for many.

Add our financial woes to the mix and the future is none to bright given no change. (maybe not all of you caught in the financials that we've maxed out our credit letters) But I still hope deep down that things work out and your son does get the chance and opportunity I had, within a great organization, to participate and maybe race if that's what he wants.

[BobsAuto]

Have you ever stopped to think that the numbers are down due to the state of the economy in this country as a whole? How many of those drivers are servicemen/women putting their lives on the line for the US in Iraq? How many people can even afford gas these days to support their racing habit? How many people have gone from upper middle class to lower middle class because their pay increases do not equal the cost of living increases? You seem to have blinders on as to the rest of the nation and what is involved with survival vs. play? Grow up and take time to see the forest from the trees.

[Mattberg]

That's a blind rationalization Bob. You're simply guessing and you have NO data to back up your specualations. Porsche Club isn't having any problems. NASA is on the rise. I actually tried to get into the March race at Sebring and couldn't. It was FULL! When was the last time you heard that at an SCCA race.

Fact is that every sport has experienced an increase over the last 12 months in attendance including an astonishing 30% increase in baseball for a second year in a row since a steady decline following the strike. You been to a ballgame recently? You know what it costs? I went to a b-ball game a couple of weeks back. Almost two bills for Diana and myself and the game was sold out.

It's people like you that blindly follow the morons that get elected and make excuses for them when they fail that has put us in this position. THe economy? Paaalease. My IBM stock I bought three years ago is still worth more than 50% of the strike from three years ago. THe DOW is still right around where it was before the huge SCCA losses started. It's been static for three years. You're talking out your butt with layman speculation spouting off opinions on topics you obviously know nothing about. THe only big change in the economy is a bunch of idiots who were paying $800 a month for an interest only ARM on houses they couldn't afford in the first place and are now looking at a BK. THey aren't racers. And as far as the Iraq conflict causing 40% + decreases in SCCA participation? Are you on drugs? That's insane specualtion. Please back that up. I'd bet there aren't 5 racers in Iraq. Simply nonsense.

Do you think it's right for a worker's dog and three year old kid to vote in an election for an organization where a third party provides 100% of all the supporting funds?