1985 ITB Golf - Newbie needs LOTS of help....

[kbee00]

Hello all,

I just found this forum and have hopes that someone can help me understand my car a little better. Just purchased an ITB Golf, 1985 w/FI. It is a very clean car and has some nice stuff on it. However, I have been reading posts calling out "A2 chassis" ,etc. and am trying to find out just what I have as far as a detailed technical understanding of the type of car mine is. Anyone want to jump in and let me know what I've just bought ???

One thing I did notice, my car does not have a strut cross bar in the front - I assume this is something I need to add to tighten up the car a bit. Any other tuning secrets you want to share? FYI - I am running this car for one season while I build up a car for the new F1000 class in SCCA so after this season, the car will be for sale and any trick stuff I add will go to the next owner....

Thanks much,

Loren

[16v]

Golf I = Rabbit (US) = A1 chassis
Golf II = A2 chassis
Golf III = A3 chassis
Golf IV = A4 chassis


check your GCR before adding a strut tie bar....

[Bill Miller]

To expand on what Doug said.

Mk I = A1 = Rabbit = 1975 to 1984
Mk II = A2 = Golf II = 1985 to 1992
Mk III = A3 = Golf III = 1993 to 1999
Mk IV = A4 = Golf IV = 2000 to 2005
Mk V = A5 = Golf V = 2006 to present


You really want to get a GCR. You'll get a copy w/ your race license, but in the mean time, you can get a .pdf version off the SCCA site (www.scca.com)

What part of the country are you in? These are very popular cars, and I'm sure there's someone w/ one near you that can give you some pointers, etc. You also probably want to have someone experienced go over the car, just to check for little 'gotchas'. People have been known to be 'creative' in their interpretation of the rules, and the last thing you want to do is get protested for something that you didn't even know about.

Also, if you're totally new to VWs, you can get some good info at www.vwvortex.com.

What's this 'new F1000 class in the SCCA' that you mentioned? It's not something that I'm familiar with.

You also mention that you're only running the VW for one season, and 'after this season', it will be for sale. I assume you're talking about running the VW for '07. The reason I say that, is that in most parts of the country, the racing seasons are in full swing, and some are at least half over.

[JamesB]

Bill,

F1000 is basically a grassroots non official group of racers running under the regional FS class calling themselves F1000. Take a FC car, put a 1000cc DSR style motor and call it a class. They have not even petitioned SCCA for an official class and it doesnt even look like they want to.


As for an A2, good car to run, I run an 87 in ITB. If I could stop having mechanical issues I think I will be well off.

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

F1000 is basically a grassroots non official group of racers running under the regional FS class calling themselves F1000. Take a FC car, put a 1000cc DSR style motor and call it a class. They have not even petitioned SCCA for an official class and it doesnt even look like they want to.
As for an A2, good car to run, I run an 87 in ITB. If I could stop having mechanical issues I think I will be well off.
[/b]

Wow, seems like a fair amount of work, not to mention money, for something that's not even recognized by the SCCA. Why not just run a DSR?

[JamesB]

I dont know. I never looked into what the difference between an FC and DSR chassis. Guess people prefer the downforce and whatnot of the openwheel continental chassis with the cheap motor of the DSR

[Bill Miller]

I dont know. I never looked into what the difference between an FC and DSR chassis. Guess people prefer the downforce and whatnot of the openwheel continental chassis with the cheap motor of the DSR
[/b]

Be interesting to see how they run. The FC track record at SP is a 1:11, and the DSR is a 1:13. I know the bike motors they use in DSRs make more hp, but I don't think they have any torque.

[kbee00]

Thanks for the info on the chassis designation - will help me find more information. I live in SE Wisconsin - near Milwaukee. I will be running about 4 races this year to keep my National Comp liscense in SCCA and then the car goes.

As far as F1000 - I am on the F1000 advisory committee and yes we have petitioned the SCCA - should be announced in the next Fast Track. FC aero/body - with SR motor rules but using an SIR to cap HP. Stock 1L bike motors with minimal adjustments. 950lb cars with 175hp motors (although the CRB may change this) - will be a fun and fast class that will run as a subgroup under FS for now - but my belief is that it will grow rapidly. FF has issues and they are working towards solving them which I believe can be helped by putting in bike motors as an alternative. FC is allowing Zetec now and over time may displace the Pinto - hard to say as there is a strong following, just like in FF.

Anyway - this fall there will be a nice ITB Golf for sale. Anyone that knows me knows that I maintain my cars to a very high degree. When I get the Golf - it will be gone thru end to end before it even turns a lap. It is yellow and will remain that color (matches my '03 20th anniversary GTI) - I will be running under the number "00" - so stop by and say hi if you see me at the track.

Thanks again for your help.

Loren

[itracer]

One thing I did notice, my car does not have a strut cross bar in the front - I assume this is something I need to add to tighten up the car a bit. [/b]

You can only add one bar to the front. On the VWs, the lower bar is more important. Some more sources for VW stuff are listed below. Just make sure you specify from ANY shop that you have an IT Legal car and you want to keep it that way. These guys will not steer you wrong. There are other good ones too, I just use these two:

www.srsvw.com Shine Racing Service
www.bildon.com Bildon Motorsports (a sponsor of this site)

Have fun.

Jason

[Bill Miller]

The A2 platform already has a subframe, so there's no need for a lower strut bar. You get the benefit of the lower subframe and being able to install an upper bar. The A1 chassis does have a lower bar, and it's much more important than the upper one.

[kbee00]

Bill,

So what it sounds like you are saying is that I should add the strut bar on my car because it already comes from the factory with a lower bar - is this correct?

I see that IT requires that the cars keep the glass, even the side glass. Has there been any discussion of being able to remove all that glass? I mean besides the obvious weight issue - it seems like a serious safety issue in a bad crash. Nothing like having a thousand pieces of glass flying around....seems kinda crazy to me!

I see that my car has the CIS system - anybody want to tell me about the do's and don'ts for maintaining/tuning that system? BTW - I am not out to collect points for any series or anything - just want to learn all I can about the car - can't help it - just born to tune I guess....

My email is ff160000 "at" yahoo.com.

Thanks again,

Loren

[racer_tim]

Loren, you can remove the glass from the driver's door if you use the NASCAR type bars. You need to keep the passenger door glass for now, along with the heater core, dashboard, side glass, hatch glass, and windshield.

You also can't re-locate the battery but you can add a fuel cell and a fire "system" which I would recommend.

[Bill Miller]

Actually Tim, you can pull the pass. side door glass, provided that you do NASCAR-style door bars on the pass. side as well.

Loren,

There are some tricks for CIS that are legal, but I would suggest not diddling w/ it right away. Learn the car first. And what I said about the bar is, there's already a subframe on an A2, so there's no need for a lower bar.

[kbee00]

Bill,

So adding a bar across the top of the struts would help?

Thanks,

Loren

Also,

I think I can run 15x6 wheels in SCCA ITB, correct? My car came with 14" wheels and I want to know if there is any advantage to running a bigger wheel/tire combo. If so, what wheels do you recommend for a guy on a budget.

Loren

[evanwebb]

Hey guy, take a look on the SCCA website, go under "club racing" and then "cars and rules" and get the online version of the GCR rulebook, you really need to look at it very closely...

[Bill Miller]

Loren,

Yes, an upper bar will help. And yes, you can run 15x6 wheels, although I'm not sure there's much of an advantage to it. 14x6 4x100 wheels are plentiful and cheap.

[kbee00]

evanwebb - I have read thru the ITB section a couple dozen times already so I think I understand what can and can't be done - I just thought those experienced with my type of car could help me understand what works best and what is just a waste of time - trying to shorten the learning curve a bit, that's all. With that being said - I want to bring the level of my car up to the best standards that I can to get the most out of what I have to work with - isn't that what racing is all about?? Again, when I am done with the car - someone is going to get a killer deal because the car will be in much better condition than I bought it and will be just that much more developed.

One thing my car did not come with is a fuel cell which I am definetely going to add. I have used the Safe-Quip cells before - anyone want to comment on what is a good size to go with? Anything I should know about mounting it? i.e. - anything weird about the VW's that would cause me grief?

You guys have been a great help - thank you. Looks like my first race will be 7/8,9 at BHF - stop by and say hi if you are there. I will buy you lunch.

Loren

[Drew Aldred]

LT, is that you ??? If so we've both come aways from our British prod cars to the welcoming arms of VWs !! I've got about 3 sets of 14X6 rims you can have for nuthin if you want/need them.

I might take you up on lunch at BHF in a few weeks

[kbee00]

Drew - my man! How are you! Hey - stop by at BHF and say hello - it would be great to see you again. Bring along those wheels if you can....Thanks!

I haven't seen or heard from Scott for a couple years now - is he still alive?

You running a VW huh? I just picked mine up - gonna run it a year while I'm building up my F1000 car - we can talk more at BHF. I'll be in the yellow #99 golf holding up the back of the pack...

Loren

[Bill Miller]

Loren,

The one thing you'll definately have to do if you put a cell in the car, is to build some kind of surge tank. There are several diagrams of how different people have done it, and I'm sure that Drew can tell you how he did it.