LRP's great improvement "The Widow Maker"

[Andy Bettencourt]

Or is it because I'm a genius and the only one to think of that?!!??


R [/b]

You really want me to answer this? :P

AB

[Greg Amy]

Rob, the line of sight for the worker station is perfect for that corner. Anything farther down and you won't catch it until you start to climb the hill, if not later.

Just move the station back and flatten out the wall there.

[RSTPerformance]

I wonder why LRP doesn't move the flag station back toward West Bend and raise it. Similar to the tree house at NHIS. The line of sight would be the same, it would give additional guard rail options and the flaggers would be safer. Is it because of that Nissan? GTP? flip when it got air at the hill? Or is it because the flaggers need quick access to the track? Or is it because I'm a genius and the only one to think of that?!!??
R
[/b]

I would like to see a flag station at the same spot (top of the hill drivers left) only 5' or so back from the track so that thier is not a wall perpendicular to our racing surface, and so that the flaggers have quick access to the track when needed.

I am not sure how I feel about that "tree house" station at NHIS, I corner worked for a day by myself (very lonely up their) in that thing and I didn't walk away with the best experience... Cold, windy and not really in a great spot to respond to someone if need be. Although it might be a cool spot for some photo's someday!!!

My initail opinion (again only viewing from this video and from previose pictures) is that the "new" Lime Rock is A LOT SAFER for the "pro" cars that run the chicane, however it might need some work for us regional guys... All in all though it IS a step in the right direction.

[Greg Amy]

I made the following two quick drawings to illustrate what I perceive as the changes at LRP and how they can affect impacts. PLEASE NOTE these are NOT to scale, are NOT engineering drawings, and could very damn well be off base, but this is what it looks like from the car and that video.

Drawing 1 is what the corner USED to look like.

Drawing 2 is the change they made.

Compare them and see what you think. - GA

[RSTPerformance]

Greg and others...

I will be at Lime Rock this weekend... I will try to get some shots on a camera that show the corner a bit better than this video... When I see it if I feel it isn't safe I will bring it to the attention of the Safety Stewards so that the club can give feedback to Lime Rock managment, should they agree with me.

Hope you all have a good weekend, and if your at the Lime Rock Natinal be sure to say hi, I will nice and dry learning in my role as an "SIT" up in the tower

Raymond

[lateapex911]

Rob, it's the latter, of course!!!!!

But seriously folks, ba da bump!

Greg, your drawings are crude, but effectively what it is in reality.

I bet the real reason that we see the result is that IMSA/ALMS stated the standards they required to race there, and that if those standards were not met, no racing would happen. I also bet thay had a completion date in the contract, AND a site inspection was carried out to confirm.

I also bet that ALMS thinks the situation is fine, as they use the chicane, if I'm not mistaken, which changes the dynamics of the corner significantly.

Lime Rock, I think, could have gone further and pulled the station back, but at considerable extra effort, and expense. Who knows, it might have been requested initially by IMSA, but 'negotiated' out by LRP in their efforts to save/make money. But I don't think it was part of the ALMS requirements, and it didn't get done.

Just a guess on my part though.

[disquek]

Would another option be to just make the flagger station a little smaller?

-Kyle

[16v]

Although it might be a cool spot for some photo's someday!!!
[/b]

I investigated this last season. There's not enough room up there for the worker to do there thing and for another person to hang out and shoot pix. I even toyed with mounting a camera and doing a remote shot..

[Wreckerboy]

Agreed, that new design is not A Good Thing. Would stacking tires in front of the Armco where it (now) is perpendicular to travel help any?

[Magical Trevor]

Agreed, that new design is not A Good Thing. Would stacking tires in front of the Armco where it (now) is perpendicular to travel help any?
[/b]

Perhaps...

Either way, that is what has been done (as of this weekend's National).

[RSTPerformance]

After looking at the turn it is far safer than it once was... It saved a few cars this weekend... which is good!!!

It is however an area of concern by many people (including myself) due to the potential to be more dangerouse in an accident especially for higher speed cars such as GT1 or FA. Us IT guys should not have an issue, but the potential is certainly thier.

The track is aware of the concerns from what I understand. I believe that they are looking at options to make the turn even more safe!!! Maybe Mike will chime in and give us an update?

Raymond

[kevin22]

I disagree, I think by extending the runoff where they did, they have made it safer for the fast cars the have to brake into the uphill. But for the slower IT cars and Miata's that barely brake, we run into trouble on the exit, and the new angle of the wall is not the solution I had hoped for.

[eprodrx7]

Report from the national is that the widow maker (WM) claimed three more cars this weekend. All were miatas. One in qual. and two in the race with collateral damage to a third car following the two that wrecked in the race. Seems that the one in qual. was all by himself and just got wide on the exit. He tagged the WM and it directed the car back into traffic. In the Miata race two went in side by side with room for one, slight contact then the outside car into the WM hard enough to bounce off and collect the other. Then both cars slid across the track in front of traffic and slightly tagging a third car. Only the third car finished. Thanks LRP for making things safe

[RSTPerformance]

Report from the national is that the widow maker (WM) claimed three more cars this weekend. All were miatas. One in qual. and two in the race with collateral damage to a third car following the two that wrecked in the race. Seems that the one in qual. was all by himself and just got wide on the exit. He tagged the WM and it directed the car back into traffic. In the Miata race two went in side by side with room for one, slight contact then the outside car into the WM hard enough to bounce off and collect the other. Then both cars slid across the track in front of traffic and slightly tagging a third car. Only the third car finished. Thanks LRP for making things safe
[/b]

Lots of Miata's only taken by the wall... hummm interesting and yet suprising as the Miata's were the cleanest sessions from what I saw....

My understanding from what I herd was that the "new uphill" saved those cars from major damage. If it was still set up in the old configuratin those cars would not have driven away, however with the new configuration I think that all of the cars drove away and were able to continue thier session if they had wnated?

John would it be feasible to get those drivers names? and oppinions on how the wall made thier specific accidents worse? Not interested in 2nd or 3rd person interprettions, would like to hear it first hand from those drivers.

I have to admit I still feel that A LOT needs to be done to make the turn as safe as it SHOULD be however they did make improvments for 90% - 95% of the incidents in the uphill.

Raymond

[benspeed]

Here's a point of reference for bad days on the race track - estimate to repair my SPO car after tangling with the Widow Maker - $9,500.00. I might be running a VERY limited season the rest of this year. Somebody send me a lottery ticket. (Add on top of that the $3K setup from the lousy shop that put together a suspension that lasted half a lap)

Anybody topping that from the ITA carnage at NHIS?

[JLawton]

Anybody topping that from the ITA carnage at NHIS?
[/b]

Wow, sorry to hear the news Ben. Although my bill from NHIS wasn't that much, I am doing all the work myself. Have about 30 hours into it already and maybe another 20 to go..............Of course, if I knew what I was doing, it would only take half the time!!

Let that friggen SPO car sit and take the RX7 out. Don't you know, IT is where it's at!!

[benspeed]

I sold the Mazda! I am without a racing fix right now. These NASCAR guys don't fool around - sounds like they'll have this thing ready in about a week.

Hope that ITA Saturn comes back faster than before!

Cheers,

bp

[theracinglawyer]

Some things to consider. The name of the new improvement "the widow maker" doesn't sound good to me. The videos of the impact with this widow maker in the SM qualifer is frighting. I will be sending the video of the SM qualifying accident with "the widow maker" to LRP. SCCA and the Connecticut state Police as they regulate racing. If they can order LRP to fill pot holes Im sure they can investigate the "the widow maker"and it safety concerns.

You do not want to make a direct hit on it as it is the same as a telephone pole in the middle of the track, you're going to get hurt.

I hope they don't wait till someone is killed to act.

[lateapex911]

Mike, lets say we leave the cops out of it until we feel that it's really required, eh??

Better to show respect and work thru chnannels than sick the cops on them, IMO..

[gran racing]

I totally agree. Wheither we agree with the changes, the track made an attempt to make it safer. Approaching the track nicely, and in a non-threatening manner should be the first step.