CRX - is it still competitive?

[Marcus Miller]

Folks,

Do you believe ITA CRX is still competitive in ITA? Considering the flavors of Miata, the Integra's, etc? How long do you believe it will stay be ocmpetitive, assuming no massive overdogs are classed?


thanks,
Marcus

[Tom Blaney]

The CRX is still quite competitive, and I think it has more potential than you think. Granted it has a few shortfalls (one being the very short wheelbase which will make it a win or die driving experience when pushed to the very edge).

But if you look at the statistics, a WELL PREPARED CRX is still winning races and resetting track records. But you do have to take the time and money to prepare it well. There are a few advantages to the Integra, one of them is that a deciently prepped one will get to the front 1/3 of the field easily, making the driver feel he is king of the hill, unfortunatly as most experienced drivers know that staying at the front and gaining those precious 2 tenths takes a lot of extra effort.

Fortunatly the CRX will get those extra 2 tenths with a less money and just more driver skill and taking the time to tune the suspension to the improved driving style.

As long as the cars are kept legal (and we all know who's Integra's NOT) the battle for the front of the pack is still up for grabs.

Tom

[charrbq]

In a word...Not like they used to be! Wait, that&#39;s 6 words...well, you get my drift. If you want a world beater for the class, build a 1.8 Miata. That&#39;s where the advantage is headed...for now. <_<

[Marcus Miller]

Thanks guys.

I was jsut curios, sine lots of thme seem to be popping up for sale at what seem like very inexpensive prices. (in expensive as compared to the $$ I had in my ITA Rx-7 I just sold) To give a frame of reference, I sold it becuase in my mind, its not competitive.

Am I going to buy a CRX to find myself in that situation nesxt year? The answer to me is a scary yes, looking at the teg and anticpating the Miata results.

Tom - I have no idea whose Integra is not legal... would be curious though.


Marcus, wishing ITB/ITC were popular on the west coast.

[Andy Bettencourt]

In a word...Not like they used to be! Wait, that&#39;s 6 words...well, you get my drift. If you want a world beater for the class, build a 1.8 Miata. That&#39;s where the advantage is headed...for now. <_< [/b]

I urge you to try and put one together and take on the world. I have a long way to go to catch the Amy NX and the Serra Teg&#39;s.

It ain&#39;t as easy as you think - but be my guest!!!!

ITA is simply the best class going right now. Lot&#39;s of legitimate podium contenders.

[lateapex911]

Tom - I have no idea whose Integra is not legal... would be curious though.

[/b]

I am guessing that Tom is talking about a Teg here on the East coast.....mmm...like the NORTH east coast, that blows up more than it finishes. If I&#39;m right, this driver has put more oil/flames/antifreeze and gear oil on the track than the EPA should allow.

When the car hangs together, he&#39;s a rocket down the straights, passing fast ITS cars, and most ITA cars like they are standing still.

But, hey, I could be thinking of someone else.

Why hasn&#39;t he been protested you ask? beats me...maybe because his car is always blowing up, and it&#39;s equipment level is a forever moving target.

(But if somebody is willing to take the plunge, I think I know a little about the Protest procedure by now, LOL)

[gran racing]

Heck, I&#39;m racing in ITB but still willing to thow in some money for the protest! The whole "people take this too seriously, it&#39;s just club racing" but I still justify cheating crap is so annoying.

The CRX...I&#39;d still consider it if moving to ITA - which I&#39;m not moving back anytime soon unless Jake and the BOD have other plans. Yes, the weight hurt the CRX but it was getting tiresome to watch the spec CRX/Integra class, I mean ITA, the way it was.

I&#39;d love to jump in a well-built, well-tuned CRX!

[Tom Blaney]

"Why hasn&#39;t he been protested you ask? beats me...maybe because his car is always blowing up, and it&#39;s equipment level is a forever moving target"

That&#39;s easy, lets see!...over a grand in costs, blatently illegal car, and the result is a "Shame on You Bad Boy Bad! now gimmie that trophy back" result.



"I&#39;d love to jump in a well-built, well-tuned CRX!" Too bad Dave mine is now running around in the hands of the Poison Arrow Frog guys, (with a better paint scheme), but if you want to buy one of the ones for sale now, I can get you the go fast parts real easy.

[lateapex911]

That&#39;s easy, lets see!...over a grand in costs, blatently illegal car, and the result is a "Shame on You Bad Boy Bad! now gimmie that trophy back" result.

[/b]

For those that don&#39;t know, or can&#39;t read between the lines, thats the voice of a guy frustrated with the system.

Tom was involved in a protest that alledged that a CRX was running , basically, a high comp cheater motor. I was one of the protesters as well as 3 other ITA guys. Long story short, (see "A protest story" on this site for the looooong version) the tech staff failed to handle the protest in a proper manner. Kathy Barnes became involved late in the going, and it is my opinion that her involvement adjusted the course of the protest. (for the better) In the end, the pistons were confirmed as high compression units, and the car was deemed illegal. The travesty of it was that this same car, in this same configuration, set lap records and won trophies previous to that protest, but the Protest Steward in charge never saw fit to ask any questions regarding the history of the engine. So the penalty was as low as you can get....the minmum points and a DQ for that event.

Those of us that have witnessed other protests have seen penaties 5 times stiffer for non performance items.

So Tom is understandably angered over the result.

(I should add that it is my opinion that the "Top brass" got wind of this situation, and was rather upset, but I have no official word on that, or any details.)

Bottom line is that justice barely got done in a clearly flagrant situation, and several racers had their faith in the system damaged.


Back on topic........it is my opinion that rumours of the CRXs demise are greatly exagerated!

[R2 Racing]

Yes, they are still quite competitive, IMHO. But, I think we&#39;ll see them maybe be a little more "track specific" now compared to how they use to be. For example, last weekend I was at Grattan, a very tight and twisty track, and got outqualified by a CRX both days. The car was formally owned by someone else and was one of the top cars in the CenDiv - actually one of two car/driver combinations I&#39;ve never beat in the CenDiv, ever. Now it&#39;s in the hands of another driver who also use to drive a CRX for years, but an underprepared one. Now he has moved into this faster, top notch CRX and was really, really fast at Grattan. I mean, my Integra is handleing pretty damn good right now, but I still couldn&#39;t keep up with that CRX with the tight esses there. He actually got down to within a couple tenths of the track record - not bad for a first outing in a car that had 100 more lbs bolted to the floor.

I&#39;ve also noticed the huge amount of really nice ITA CRX&#39;s for sale at dirt cheap prices. I know what this CRX sold for and for what it has and can do, it was an absolute steal! Yet I see former ARRC podium finishing CRX&#39;s going for $7-9K and Integra&#39;s that haven&#39;t going for $13-15K. I mean, I still find the CRX vs. Integra or any other ITA car debateable, but the market sure isn&#39;t showing it!

[JamesB]

I think its very competitive if well driven and well prepared. In MARRS the front runners where a huge mix of cars, 1.6 Miata, Integra, CRX, 240SX. All great drivers and the only time one of them was missing from the top 5 was when they overdrove a corner. I didnt get to spectate M1 since I was finally driving, but from the result sheets the front was tighter together then last year.

[almracing]

I certainly hope the CRX is still competitive... I plan to put mine back together (see wreck story in New England Region forum) It has been disappointing to see some of the newer cars in the ITA class coming on so strong, but I also know alot of $$ have been spent to make them fast.

I run at NHIS in NH and can battle with some of the Integras. The CRX can hold its own down the straight, but suffers a bit in a slow uphill section. I find the car a blast to drive with great brakes and good handling. Now if I could only do a street-rod swap and put an Integra engine in it. <_<

[charrbq]

I urge you to try and put one together and take on the world.




[/b]

Why would I want to do that? Well, I suppose having a more competitive car in a class I can&#39;t afford might be a reason, but that won&#39;t happen any time soon. I only said that the CRX&#39; would not be as competitive as they once were. You recall when they were unbeatable? That&#39;s changed, now it&#39;s the Integra, but you Miata guys won&#39;t let that stay for long. Then there will be complaints, whining, etc. and the process will continue. Who knows what&#39;s coming to the class...924&#39;s?

[lateapex911]

Why would I want to do that? Well, I suppose having a more competitive car in a class I can&#39;t afford might be a reason, but that won&#39;t happen any time soon. I only said that the CRX&#39; would not be as competitive as they once were. You recall when they were unbeatable? That&#39;s changed, now it&#39;s the Integra, but you Miata guys won&#39;t let that stay for long. Then there will be complaints, whining, etc. and the process will continue. Who knows what&#39;s coming to the class...924&#39;s?
[/b]

I guess we need to come to an agreement on the term, "competitive".

Competitive is NOT dominating.

Dominating is NOT the model that may win the most. That might be the more popular car. In the early 90s, people called the RX-7 "dominating"...but a well prepped RX-3 never lost to an RX-7 ....

An overdog is a car that is classed in such a way as to have an inherent physical advantage that, when raced against other equally well preppped and well driven cars, is unbeatable.

Competitive is, to me, a car that can win against the best, on certain tracks. Not necessairily ANY track, or every track.

Defined that way, I think the CRX is certainly competitive, and ITA has nothing that is, at this point, a clear and obvious overdog.

At this point I think that the models in ITA that are "competitive" are:
CRX
Integra
Nissan 240SX
Nissan NX2000
Sentra SER
Miata
Saturn

I&#39;m sure i missed one as well.

Unproven, but solid "Good chance" cars include the:

Neon
BMW 325e
and probably some other Honda product!
and maybe the GTI?

That&#39;s quite a list to choose from! One thing is for sure, the ARRC could be pretty interesting this year. I can think of an example of each car in the first group that has the talent and build quality to make the trip to Atlanta wothwhile.

[Hotshoe]

I guess we need to come to an agreement on the term, "competitive".

a well prepped RX-3 never lost to an RX-7 ....

Competitive is, to me, a car that can win against the best, on certain tracks. Not necessairily ANY track, or every track.

Defined that way, I think the CRX is certainly competitive, and ITA has nothing that is, at this point, a clear and obvious overdog.

At this point I think that the models in ITA that are "competitive" are:
CRX
Integra
Nissan 240SX
Nissan NX2000
Sentra SER
Miata
Saturn

I&#39;m sure i missed one as well.

Unproven, but solid "Good chance" cars include the:

Neon
BMW 325e
and probably some other Honda product!
and maybe the GTI?

That&#39;s quite a list to choose from! [/b]

Jake,

.... I can&#39;t believe that you turned your back on your own car. I am running ITA this year just to prove to you ( and everyone else ) that a 1st gen RX7 can be competitive (as you said"on certain tracks not every track"). I guess I need to wait until they put my 97 Miata in ITA then maybe I will have a chance. But until then I&#39;ll do my best with what I&#39;ve got.....LOL

... FYI ... My First three wins were against the ITA Champion ,Stan Hinds, Driving an RX3

... And don&#39;t be surprised when the 1.8 Miata takes over ITA. The writing is on the wall............. I&#39;m ready.

... Just standing up for my car and myself ...

... Rick Thompson

[Catch22]

Well, I&#39;ve been driving an ITA CRX all year, and I&#39;ll say this...

Its still fast.
But that 110lbs is taking its toll in other places. Our formerly dead nuts reliable chassis is now a brake, hub and halfshaft eating monster, and we aren&#39;t the only ones. Other folks in the divsion are also struggling with front end reliability.

As a result, we&#39;ve punted on the ECR series. The car is just too brutal on front end parts now to try to do longer races. We&#39;re now just looking at SARRC and ProIT races.
Very unfortunate indeed, but continually replacing front end parts is not in the budget and we&#39;re having a hard time even finishing the long races.

My opinion (and remember that I wasn&#39;t against the weight addition when the news first broke) is now that the adjustment went too far. The percentage of weight added vs. the total weight of the chassis is larger than any other car&#39;s adjustment (I think, but I&#39;m admittedly bad at math) and its going to prove to be too much in my opinion. The car is still capable of burning some fast laps, but it can&#39;t do it in a sustaned manner anymore. The problem is that a Miata (both flavors), RX7 and an Integra can.

My suggestion, after 1/2 a season in a 2250lb CRX (that started the season with all new front end parts BTW), is for the ITAC to revisit the addition and consider dropping the weight to 2200lbs.
I&#39;m afraid if some sort of compromise isn&#39;t made, we&#39;ll see these very good and formerly hot dog cars start to disappear.
That would be extremely unfortunate, and is not what the ITAC or the comp board wants.
We need balance, but not at the expense of obsoleting a popular chassis.

If you do the math, a 60lb addition as opposed to 110 more closely matches what other chassis got percentage-wise in "The Great Adjustment of 2006."

JMVHO

[Andy Bettencourt]

If you do the math, a 60lb addition as opposed to 110 more closely matches what other chassis got percentage-wise in "The Great Adjustment of 2006."

JMVHO
[/b]

What every other car &#39;got&#39; has nothing to do with it. The fact it got the &#39;most&#39; percentage-wise, just means it was the furthest &#39;off&#39; pre-correction.

People are selling them because they aren&#39;t overdogs anymore. Now you have to actually race - oh no!

110lbs turns the car from perfect to a parts eating monster? Hmmmm...

Remember, these were not comp adjustments. They were just run through the process like everything else. The CRX SHOULD be a car that is track dependent - it&#39;s small and nimble. Others will have strengths elsewhere.

You boys better keep developing - Greg Amy is coming to Atlanta with a real sharp knife.

AB

[charrbq]

I guess we need to come to an agreement on the term, "competitive".

Competitive is NOT dominating.



[/b]

Agreed, but not in everyone&#39;s dictionary. In a perfect world, we desire to compete on an even field with everyone having a chance to win. In reality, we want to kick everybody&#39;s butt! That&#39;s when most feel they are competitive. Not necessarily correct, but still human nature. Most don&#39;t build a particular car to be simply competitive, but to dominate, if possible. We all won&#39;t to win as often as we can. Even that Schumaker guy has to have a helluva car to win. The best of drivers can&#39;t do it with a simply competitive car all the time.

[Knestis]

... and maybe the GTI? ...[/b]

Seriously - A is where it&#39;s at.

If the 2.0 16v GTI weren&#39;t as rare as hen&#39;s teeth, I&#39;d have built one the instant they got moved to ITA. Since I got de-NERDified, I&#39;ve harbored thoughts of just building a Frankenstein damn-the-VIN version out of the older, straight, rust-free $300 no-sunroof shell I see sitting whenever I go to my favorite Asian lunch joint, and the drivetrain from a crapped out, freebie &#39;91 Passat. The "big" bumpers are the hardest part of the recipe.

Just let some NERD protest me. I know Greg won&#39;t but...

K

[Ron Earp]

Kirk,

I don&#39;t think anyone would really file a protest on a VIN number. Would they? I mean dang, this is racing, this is a race car, that VIN number stuff is rooted in IT days long gone with tags title etc. Build the car just like a GTI, be done with it. Looks like a duck, smells like a duck, etc. Heck, stamp your own VIN on a plate if you need to. Lord knows that was done with some 260zs to 240s back in the day, I know - I own 1/2 of one that ran like that in the past.

Ron