ITR Cars

[rob22]

Ron, you are right, there is a fine selection of cars, and all the hard work by the folks involved is appreciated. My point on the camaro and mustang V6's are that you couldn't legally get enough weight out of them to make them competitive, and I don't think those motors lend themselves well enough to legal mods to make up the slack. I agree there are some V8 cars that could be classed in here. I think the Porshe's, BmW's, the S2000 and possibly the 90-96 Z cars will be tough.

Bosco

[DavidM]

Cool list. Several 4-door as well as higher HP FWD cars which should make for an interesting class. I think most of the newer cars are going to take a good amount of $$ to prep, but that's to be expected. Seems like several people are looking at the Z32 300ZX (I have a twin-turbo), but I gotta wonder about its brakes. The stock brakes are tiny for its porker weight. They're the biggest problem the car has in stock form IMO. This should be a fun class to watch develop. Maybe I'll move up once I've been driving for a few years.

David

[tnord]

darin i noticed the same thing. i used to have a maxima, my dad bought a new 97 when i was working for nissan that my sister now drives, so i'm fairly familiar with them.

the 89-91 had a 3.0l 170hp V6. i think VG30DE was the engine code.

the 92-94 was the same body style but had the VQ30DE (same as the NA Z32 300ZX) at 190hp.

the 95-99? maxima had the same VQ30DE but i think was 195hp in the new body style.

the 00-03? maxima had the same VQ30DE cranked up to 222hp in the new body style, and was now available with a 6sp.

i don't remember the specific weights of the various models, or their respective suspension designs or brake sizes. some of my years could very well be off a bit.

given that these are all FWD, i would probably chose the 95-99yrs since they would likely have a lighter weight than the 6sp high hp model.

[Stan]

...given that these are all FWD...[/b]

Really? I didn't know that. IIRC, the Nissan V30-series engines are quite large and were first installed in RWD cars. What is their orientation in the Maxima?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Really? I didn't know that. IIRC, the Nissan V30-series engines are quite large and were first installed in RWD cars. What is their orientation in the Maxima? [/b]

All the Maxima's being discussed are FWD.

[Stan]

Yes, I understand that they're FWD. What I am wondering is the orientation of the engine (and drive train). Is the engine longitudinal with an Audi-like FWD, or transverse with the conventional FWD layout?

Thanks! Stan

[Andy Bettencourt]

Yes, I understand that they're FWD. What I am wondering is the orientation of the engine (and drive train). Is the engine longitudinal with an Audi-like FWD, or transverse with the conventional FWD layout?

Thanks! Stan [/b]

It's the 'wrong' way powering the 'wrong' wheels!

Transverse and conventional.

AB

[Stan]

Oh, darn...but thanks for the info!

[ITANorm]

the 00-03? maxima had the same VQ30DE cranked up to 222hp in the new body style, and was now available with a 6sp.[/b]

00-01

The '02-'04 cars have the 3.5L, rated at 255HP. My wife has an '02, and even with an automatic it needs traction control if you have an injudicious right foot. One of the sleepers - don't tell anyone!

[shwah]

That looks like an exciting list. A lot of different flavors to choose from. My only comment is to review the list for clones and include both marques. The 3000GT - Dodge Stealth was the one that jumped out at me.

[mustanghammer]

I agree to a point - you have not seen weights. I am an advocate for a couple of domestic V8 models that I think will indeed fit quite well in this bunch, but they were left out on the first round. See the ITR Mustang (SN95 model, Jeff made a mistake with Fox platform and the drum brake cars) thread here, but let's not turn this thread into "in or out" because this is definitely a second round process.

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...topic=7818&st=0

Regardless, there is a fine selection of cars on the list and I think the class will draw some folks interested in running there!

R
[/b]

Aren't the V6 Mustangs on the list OHV 3.8L V6 cars? The SOHC 4.0L came out in 05.

[Z3_GoCar]

Ron,

Here's a hypothetical question....

If you list the '99-'00 Z3's with mine, do I get to install the double VANOS system

Or how about the different rear sheet metal from the '00?

BTW, those two years ( '99-'00) came with 193 hp, where mine came with 189 hp. I think these changes coincide with the introduction of the e-46 328 vs. the e-36 328, but the Z3 was the last of the e-36 varients.

Also, you should also consider classing the '01-'02 Z3 3.0l at 225hp.

James

[Ron Earp]

Ron,

Here's a hypothetical question....

If you list the '99-'00 Z3's with mine, do I get to install the double VANOS system

Or how about the different rear sheet metal from the '00?

BTW, those two years ( '99-'00) came with 193 hp, where mine came with 189 hp. I think these changes coincide with the introduction of the e-46 328 vs. the e-36 328, but the Z3 was the last of the e-36 varients.

Also, you should also consider classing the '01-'02 Z3 3.0l at 225hp.

James
[/b]

A lot of that will be worked out on the VTS sheets. I imagine that we'll try to keep it simple, so with minor changes cars would be on the same line.

Ron

[Z3_GoCar]

Oh, Ok, Sure......

But would you consider changing from variable intake cam only to both cams being variable a minor change? BTW, I can understand ignoring the sheet metal/tail lights.

James

[JeffYoung]

These are good points. We frankly are not as knowledgeable about the various iterations of BMW motors and bodies as we should be. I've sent the spreadsheet with weights to Dan Jones. Why don't you guys take a look at it and give us a corrected list of the BMWs you think should be on an ITR class list.

[Z3_GoCar]

Hey Jeff,

Here's a web site that might be illuminating as far as the engine designations and hp availible:

http://www.bmwworld.com/repairs/codes/engines.htm

The only issue I would have with this site is that the hp numbers listed are for the sedans, which have a better exhaust due to space limitations. So the Z3 2.8l (97-98) single vanos is 189hp, Z3 2.8l (99-00) double vanos is 193hp, and Z3/Z4 3.0l (01-on) double vanos is 225hp. Some of this is listed on other pages.

James

[ilateapex]

Suprised to see the BMW 635 on the list. I can not see it competitive in IT trim with the other cars on the list. I have a euro spec model and can't get it to the 3027 weight of the BMWCCA CR JP class with a 190# driver. NO way to get it much lower with IT legal stuff. With the Euro motor, Bigger brakes, and a good suspension I can't keep up with a decent driven E36 in IT trim. Best I did was 1:45 at Mid-ohio and I can get in the low 1:47 with my ITS E30. I have improved my driving some but not enough to get in a US spec car and keep up with an M3 unless the M3 weights in at 4000lbs.

Michael

BMW E30 325 ITS/GTS1/KP
BMW E24 635 Euro JP
BMW E36 M3 street

[dj10]

Ron,

Here's a hypothetical question....

If you list the '99-'00 Z3's with mine, do I get to install the double VANOS system

Or how about the different rear sheet metal from the '00?

BTW, those two years ( '99-'00) came with 193 hp, where mine came with 189 hp. I think these changes coincide with the introduction of the e-46 328 vs. the e-36 328, but the Z3 was the last of the e-36 varients.

Also, you should also consider classing the '01-'02 Z3 3.0l at 225hp.

James [/b]

James,

Give me the years that are different and I'll add them to the list, with accurate data for the board to review. BTW if these are IT rules you are allowed to update complete units.

Dan

[Andy Bettencourt]

BTW if these are IT rules you are allowed to update complete units.

[/b]

Assuming they make it onto the same spec line, which I doubt they will.



AB

[billf]

I know I'm being picky ...just my nature, I guess. But here goes:


From a post by Bill Miller:
"In a T2 configuration a Boxter turned a 1:12.9 @ Nelson Ledges, that's a 2mile track w/ 13 turns. FYI I see cars with really big brakes."


Nelson has numbered corners that don't correspond to a strict number scale, i.e.

1 and 2 are joined and driven as one turn) known as "turn one", turn 1), followed by turn 3, the infamous 4 (also previously known as "Oak Tree"), 5 or 6 (carousel), an unnamed very slight bend on the main straight, then the "kink", or turn 11, followed by 12 (left hand) and turn 13 which leads onto the pit straight. Out of this I count seven turns (not counting the "slight bend" noted above.

Many times the numbers are referencing flag stations.

It is however, a very fast track regarding the average speed per lap.

Bill