Building ITS car

[seckerich]

i agree, i was not advocating a 13/13 in scca...just that really bad conduct be dealt with.

can we run in spu? never thought of that...time to pull out the rule book...;-)
[/b]

Just make sure you have a cell and a fire system and you are good to go.

I dont like to see unreasonable contact but I would not like to see a 13/13 SCCA, part of the reason I enjoy SCCA over PCA or BMWCCA is the CLOSE racing. Back to the original post, the e36 325 is dead in ITS for now! Congrats to SteveE at VIR on ITS wins this past weekend but what a dead race... SteveE checked out then rode around to the end for a easy win over a quick Z car and a surprising GSR.. Not what we have seen in the past when the e36 guys were in. BTW SteveE also dropped another 2:14 in Q near that famous time posted by that orange BMW ( same race, same time of the year Andy at a HP track ) I still contend that for a novice racer who insists on a e36 325 go start in BMWCCR, get yourself and car up to speed and then see what the future holds for you in SCCA.

Lets just move on and get ITR going soon........... And for the e36 guys running ITE, why not move over to SPU and atleast not have to deal with the Vipers and Vettes
[/b]

Have you looked at the Moroso results? Doesn't look dead to me.

[JLawton]

Have you looked at the Moroso results? Doesn't look dead to me.
[/b]

It's certainly not dead in New England............

[Fastfred92]

Can anybody post results or links for some post SIR e36 results that also included bad ass fast RX7 guys like SteveE in the field as well?

It would be interesting to see how those times compare to same car same track last year...

[seckerich]

Can anybody post results or links for some post SIR e36 results that also included bad ass fast RX7 guys like SteveE in the field as well?

It would be interesting to see how those times compare to same car same track last year...
[/b]

I will take that as a compliment Fred. I was sending you to the results from Moroso because Carlos Garcia and Buzz Marcus have had some great battles in the past and it continues today. Buzz is as much 10/10ths Speedsource as they get and is a wicked fast driver. Carlos won. Buzz won Saturday but Garcia started last. I don't see the death yet as I said.

[Doc Bro]

It's certainly not dead in New England............
[/b]

Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R

[Fastfred92]

I will take that as a compliment Fred. [/b]

Compliment intended !!! You and Carlos have had some great battles as well! My opinion of Moroso is that it is not a HP track as much as a handling track, disagree?

[mlytle]

Just make sure you have a cell and a fire system and you are good to go.

[/b]

got a fire system, but no cell..oh well!

[seckerich]

Compliment intended !!! You and Carlos have had some great battles as well! My opinion of Moroso is that it is not a HP track as much as a handling track, disagree?
[/b]

True, but the SIR does not really come in until the top end and has little effect on the low end grunt. Carlos has the SIR in the right place to make it work. I have not seen other installations so have no grounds to comment. If it is installed per some conversations on this board it will kill the car. I would expect it to take some time to work out and agree it is a screwed up season for all involved with mid-year implementation. I want good close racing however that works out. Now I will quit stealing a thread and move to SIR discussion where this should be discussed.

[BMW RACER]

If they are going 6 seconds a lap slower I think they are doing something wrong. At 1.6 mile Buttonwillow I lost 1.4 seconds. But I'll reserve my judgement until June 3rd when I run California Speedway which is a real Dyno test.

[JLawton]

Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R
[/b]

Watch out Rob, the sky is falling!!

Can't judge it on one race and one car............ Waaaaay too many variables.......

And I'm sure the 325s will survive in New England. Much different tracks than Pocono

[Stan]

Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R
[/b]

Are you sure that it wasn't Don Maynard at Pocono? Bob Dowie from the CRB was there and told me that Don was 6 sec off last year's times. Bob was concerned about why, so offered to check out their installation (Bob did much of the initial e36 SIR testing on his chassis dyno). It turned out the team had the SIR installed backwards and in the wrong place. Now that they know what will work better they are excited about going to NHIS.

[Doc Bro]

Watch out Rob, the sky is falling!!

Can't judge it on one race and one car............ Waaaaay too many variables.......

And I'm sure the 325s will survive in New England. Much different tracks than Pocono
[/b]

Jeff, my approach to life in general is never calamity or reactionary. (Hell, I employ a dozen women...if that doens't teach patience nothing will). And, I don't believe the sky is falling.

However, what I did get was a good glimpse of what this thing REALLY means to people and the frustration associated with it. I also got to witness other ITS guys coming over to lend a hand and help for the spirit of competition. They "missed" the guy they were racing with. They reaction by them was the same....this stinks. Certainly not the groundswell of you got yours. take that.

If we get to witness this first hand (for a hobby mind you) we may feel differently. If the SIR was put to "police" southern e36's that were suspected of being illegal then this is not proper. The way to police ilegality is with paper not aluminum.

I understand the process and the e36's relation to it but the process has usually used weight as the adjuster.

Besides, how come everyone always says "competitivenes of a car is not guaranteed?" when it comes to a dog but not when it comes to a thoroughbred. It's ok to get your butt kicked everyweekend but not to do good everyweekend???


my thoughts

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

However, what I did get was a good glimpse of what this thing REALLY means to people and the frustration associated with it. I also got to witness other ITS guys coming over to lend a hand and help for the spirit of competition. They "missed" the guy they were racing with. They reaction by them was the same....this stinks. Certainly not the groundswell of you got yours. take that.

If we get to witness this first hand (for a hobby mind you) we may feel differently. If the SIR was put to "police" southern e36's that were suspected of being illegal then this is not proper. The way to police ilegality is with paper not aluminum.

R [/b]

The CRB did not spec the SIR because of any thoughts on cheaters. The decision boils down to a few key items:

A full IT-spec E36 325 WILL make in excess of 200whp.
If the spec weight of 2850 was to be kept, the HP had to be limited to around 185whp (while retaining 170+ ftlbs at the wheels).
The CRB's testing showed that 18whp came off every example they strapped to the rollers (in 29mm form). That nails their goal. Weights are set at top prep - so this is no different - it's just reverse engineered.

I am not a fan of the SIR because of this exact situation. There are no nicer people than the Maynards. It's a family team who busts their collective behinds to race a ton and have fun. Yes, they have an underprepped car (engine) and a excellent young driver - and they are top 3-5 material in 15-20 car ITS fields...BUT when this throws them to the back, the fun goes away. Bad thing IMHO.

Some will tell you that a 3150-3200 spec weight would have done the same, but I don't think so.

Did everyone feel bad for them? You bet. But when push comes to shove, and everyone around you has to have pro engines to compete for a podium, you should too. Is that in the original spirit of IT - nope - but it is a reality.

If the ITR concept goes through, it will provide a place for the E36's - WITHIN the process - at 2750ish...unrestricted. Write your letters.

AB

[Fastfred92]

Hello all!!!

I am new to the group. I recently purchased a 93 bmw 325is (with limited slip) with the intention of turning it into an ITS car. Can anyone here give me a rundown on the basics of things to do.
[/b]

After all the flames, back to the guys orginal question.... Your car with the addition of safety equipment is ready to go BMW club racing in JP or possibly JS ( not sure about what shocks are legal in JS ) Wheels and tires are free in JP and a full on ITS car would be legal in JP without SIR hassles. You could get your safety gear ( cage, fire, good seat, belts, net etc. ) installed in a few weekends and be on track in short order. Get a simple lap timer, get some seat time as you continue to develop your car and see what the future holds for the e36 325 here in the SCCA. Most important part of our hobby is be safe and have fun, right now not many e36 guys are having fun in SCCA but that is subject to change.....

[mlytle]

If the ITR concept goes through, it will provide a place for the E36's - WITHIN the process - at 2750ish...unrestricted. Write your letters.

AB
[/b]

this is also a key factor in whether or not to deal with an sir this year. if the e36 will be reclassified into itr next year, then there is no point in investing the effort into dealing with an sir this year that will be thrown away at the end of the season.

too many question marks with scca for the e36, which is why it is best for someone just starting racing with an e36 to play in other venues for now until the dust settles.

[JeffYoung]

I have to agree. The car's status is unsettled. No guarantee it will be the topdog in ITR either, as it was in ITS.

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's all personal preference. ITR is by no means a done deal so throwing away a season while waiting and not developing, may just be that, throwing a season away.

AB

[buldogge]

Hey Jeff... Is the intent to completely re-classify the E36 or to present the option of running ITS (with SIR) or ITR (without and at a lower weight which may or may not be attainable)???

I have to agree. The car's status is unsettled. No guarantee it will be the topdog in ITR either, as it was in ITS.
[/b]

[DoubleXL240Z]

Andy,
Why would target hp be at 185@2850, when top level RX7s are at
180-185hp @2680. Wouldn't 10-13 hp equal out a 170 lb. weight disparity.
Just lookin at numbers.
Thanks,
Chris

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy,
Why would target hp be at 185@2850, when top level RX7s are at
180-185hp @2680. Wouldn't 10-13 hp equal out a 170 lb. weight disparity.
Just lookin at numbers.
Thanks,
Chris [/b]

You have to look at everything. Not validating your RX-7 numbers but the HP levels should be close. Remember, the Bimmer has 50 more ft/lbs of torque at the wheels, has great brakes and has a 1:1 5th gear. I would take that 170 lbs with those attributes every day of the week.

AB