ITA/Spec Miata Side hoop implementation

[ddewhurst]

The question is:

With respect to the GCR/SSS/ITCS/SMCS rules, what may be altered/modified/moved/relocated behind the instrument panel or in the path of the side hoops when implementing the side hoops & the recomended horizontal cross tube within an ITA Mata or Spec Miata ?

I chose the ITA/Spec Miata as an example because I am building a Spec Miata & the same rules apply with an ITA Miata.

The rules are: (Please add more written rules you know of.)

GCR 18.2. Roll Cage Showroom Stock

18.2.5.A. side hoops

18.2.5.B. front hoop

18.2.5.C. "halo" hoop

18.2.5.D. extend through dash pad

18.2.5.E. recomended horizontal brace

SSS 17.1.3. Showroom Stock

17.1.3.D.1. Technical Safety Items

ITCS 17.1.4. Improved Touring

17.1.4.D.9.c. Other than modifications made to mount instruments and provide for roll cage installation, the remainder of the dash "board" or panel shall remain intact.

17.1.4.D.9.f. Other than to provide for the installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted.

SMCS 17.1.9. Spec Miata

17.1.9.C.8.c. Other than modifications made to mount instruments and provide for roll cage installation, the remainder of the dash "board" or panel shall remain intact.

17.1.9.C.8.e. Other than to provide for the installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted.



Some of us will fall on each side of what can & can't be altered/modified.

There is a "Dashboard" which attaches to a "Instrument panel frame".

On the drivers side there is:

1. A welded box member that supports the A pillar to the cowl air vent box which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

2. A bundle of wires & a large holder loop attached to a welded stud which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

3. A fuse block which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

On the passenger side there is:

10. A welded box member that supports the A pillar to the cowl air vent box which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

11. A temp control blower fan/housing which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

12. A welded bracket with welded stud for mounting the blower fan/housing to which is in the potential path of the side hoop.

Back to the original question, can items 1 through 3 & items 10 through 12 be altered/modified/ moved/relocated to clear the path for the side hoops ?

[ddewhurst]

Ok, 101 peeks & NONE of the rules nerds has a desire to engage in a little side hoop discussion.

[AntonioGG]

I'm not a rules nerd (I think?) but I do own/drive an SM.

IMHO you can move the harness and fuse box but I'm not sure about removing the box member you speak of. I think that is what the parts catalog calls a "dash side sill junction". I know that you can't weld your forward/firewall braces to that box member since it's not considered a firewall. Even if it's not structural, the BOD/CRB doesn't like to allow removal of anything resembling a structural panel. They wouldn't even let us remove the seat belt towers (some tall drivers went through them, other guys wanted to remove them to make for a nice clean bulkhead).

For what it's worth, I believe I've seen cages whose downtubes (side hoops) go behind the dash support bar where you can easily remove the dash and bar and avoid all those pieces. Mine is done with the tubes going through the dash cover but in front of the dash bar/support. However, the whole thing is modified such that the guts remain behind (including the heat/vent ducting) and the cover is removable. This allows for a cross bar placement above the dash guts.

[Knestis]

Ok, 101 peeks & NONE of the rules nerds has a desire to engage in a little side hoop discussion.
[/b]

102.

Have opinions but the world is moving on without them. Whee!

K

[Z3_GoCar]

Have you tried Specmiata.com??

Maybe you can join in the eternal seat belt tower debate




James

[ddewhurst]

James, I read the Spec Miata site but choose not to post.

[AntonioGG]

James, I read the Spec Miata site but choose not to post.
[/b]

Why not? If I did the same here, you'd have zero replies of any value to your question. (not saying my reply has any value...at least it's an attempt)

[ddewhurst]

Antonio, most rule threads on this site have every rules nerd from the site taking part. If some of the rules nerds on this site can't have their way they get pi$$y & start throwing every thing into the thread including the kitchen sink. I & several nerds had a good conversationm going about traction bars untill the manufacture of the center link used in a four link rearend started throwing his kitchen sink rules into the conversation. He quit communicating. I have by phone talked to several people (some from this site & others) about the butchering that ITA & Spec Miata owners are doing behind the instrument panel. I talked to one respected guy from a OEM that is involved big time in road racing & he stated thet butchering behind the instrument panel is ok as long as it's relative to implementing the roll cage & that the butchering behind the instrument panel is a carry over from Showrom Stock & it's ok. To which I asked him to list the rules that make butchering behind the instrument panel ok. Silence, no response. Sure there are lots of things that are legal untill someone protest & then $hit hits the fan (or the CRB changes the rule) & the protester is called all sorts of things. I bought a prefabed roll cage that has been talked about in depth on the Spec Miata site & I beleive the man installs the same roll cage. The questions I asked about in my opening post on this thread are all required to install the cage that many Spec Miata folks have used & the cage I bought. Do ya think the folks on the Spec Miata site would like to answer my questions or do ya think I would get treated like a low life on that site.

IMHJ there are three or more reasons the nerds are not responding. One, a couple of them are pi$$ed at me because I wouldn't let go if they talk out in space. Two, some of their roll cages are not legal & they don't want to open a can of worms. Some of them need someone to type first so they have something to rag about with minimun value added info.

My first car was/is a ITA 1st gen Mazda RX-7. The Spec Miata is my second car & I like my cars to be legal & not legal because no one protested them.

[Knestis]

...IMHJ there are three or more reasons the nerds are not responding. One, a couple of them are pi$$ed at me because I wouldn't let go if they talk out in space. Two, some of their roll cages are not legal & they don't want to open a can of worms. Some of them need someone to type first so they have something to rag about with minimun value added info. ...[/b]

Or four: Some agree with your thesis - even if some people they respect think differently - that there's a lot of loosey-goosey hacking going on, but are just too tired of tilting at NERDish windmills to waste bandwidth trying to change a dominant paradigm.

K

[lateapex911]

Or five, they aren't as aware of the situation and the specifics enough to render a judgement, esp when the writer seems to be well versed and opinionated.

BTW, the tri link manufacturer you referred to, Jim Susko, probably stopped "communicating" because you stated your opinion, he stated his, he was complete and respectful, and there was really no point in restating what he already spent time writing. I have found Jim to be a very knowledgeable engineer with a career spent in automotive suspension design. He is usually helpful and reasonable, and his post seemed right in line. His points were well stated.

[ddewhurst]

Thanks Kirk, nothing was aimed at you. I always respect your input.

Jake, Jim is always correct as long as he is the one talking. Talk to him about the subject of his & my last phone conversation that was about his product having different hole centers (two holes) than my OEM part. It is amazing what one learns when one measures both parts. Then call me at 1-414-453-0929 & we'll see if the storys match........... Part of the neatness of sites like this is that many of us don't have a clue what others experience/education is.

Jake, don't take me wrong. I don't dislike you, I enjoy discussions with you.

[Greg Amy]

Or four: Some agree with your thesis - even if some people they respect think differently - that there's a lot of loosey-goosey hacking going on, but are just too tired of tilting at NERDish windmills to waste bandwidth trying to change a dominant paradigm.[/b]

Ditto. I flat-ass just don't give a damn anymore; I'm too busy firguring out how to take advantage of the new rules-reads... - GA