Is it IRP time yet?

[R2 Racing]

Buick/Rover V8 by the way[/b]

Whoops, my bad.

[Racerlinn]

I was rather perplexed as to what Andy was doing on that start as well. Andy, you probably should have told the guy that was starting right behind you about any mechanical issues. When I saw who I was starting behind, I knew where I was going to be going - right behind you.

Would anyone like to comment on the actions of the Blue ITS BMW during Mr. Flocks encounter with the wall after T5? It's difficult to see on the Google version of the vid, but the corner worker at T5 drivers-left does throw the yellow flag. I saw it just as I came thru the corner. The Blue Bimmer was in-line behind me. I was rather dismayed that he choose to race past me between Mike's crashing (grinding?) car and myself. I had to soft pedal it when I caught up to the red Bimmer that was in front of me as the blue one was fully up beside me and I figured the red one would move left (and he did).
Did he time it right that he passed AFTER the scene (a rolling one at that) of the accident? Yeah, probably.
But I did not think it was a safe move.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84428034862071

[Andy Bettencourt]

This is an interesting topic (the start of the TR8) and the starts of races are so different (and important) every race I try and learn whenever I can. For one, the car should have been black flagged and a stop and go applied. I wonder all the time what goes through stewards heads during the decision making process on wave-offs vs. black flags.

Secondly, if the issue was one of such concern, starting from the back of the grid would have been the 'safest' solution or not even taking the green.

The BEST solution in my mind would have been to inform ALL your competitors in the run group. Without any knowledge of what you were doing, drivers have no idea what to expect. I personally would have thought you were yeilding to everyone else as you had a known mechanical and I would have made racing moves based on that assumption - only driven by your positioning that has no good explanation for. You at least owe it to your competitoirs to inform them - because some (like Paul) think it was an advantage.

I also believe 100% that the TR8 got ZERO advantage from that move (because he could have just as easily popped out at the green and taken the exact same line. The only issue is that you technically 'blocked' that slot for others who may or may not have gotten a run on the pack.

Bottom line for me? The motivation was pure, no advantage was gained and the final results were not tainted. HOWEVER, why would the stewards allow a start like that without a wave or a penalty to the TR8? It makes no sense to me.

[paulydee]

Andy B. I am glad you chimed in as a voice of reason. That was a very concise point of view.
Thanks for coming to visit the MidWest Forum for a logical and level headed post.

[Racerlinn]

And it appears we may have to change the title of this particular thread to 'Is it ORP time yet?"
Looks like the NHRA has to decided to follow the crowd and is selling the naming rights to the facility to O'Reily Auto Parts.
Thus, we will have O'Reily Raceway Park. Maybe that should be "ORRP"?
ick.

[Marc Henry]

As I was working in the starters stand for this weekend, we did see that the TR8 was out of line at the start. We called it in as soon as race control called for held calls. The steward asked us to write up the incident, and we did. As a competetor myself, I personally would like to see at least, a drive thru penalty on anyone that improves their position or out of line, before the green flag is displayed. It would show me that the stewards know about the infraction, and have taken action.

[Drew Aldred]

At every driver's meeting I've been to the last few years, the start is always the main topic. Anyone getting out of line from the car in front can expect a stop and go penalty. Not sure why the TR8 wasn't given some type of penalty as he was way out of line before the green.

A known problem with the clutch should have started at the back to avoid any possible problems balking the start.

[R2 Racing]

Thus, we will have O'Reily Raceway Park. Maybe that should be "ORRP"?[/b]

O'RRP? Hmmm, being O'Reily Raceway Park, I might have to get super drunk at the Saturday night party and start a fight with someone.



(Disclaimer: If you're of Irish decent and took offense to that comment, save it and lighten up, because so am I. )

[Racerlinn]

O'RRP? Hmmm, being O'Reily Raceway Park, I might have to get super drunk at the Saturday night party and start a fight with someone.
(Disclaimer: If you're of Irish decent and took offense to that comment, save it and lighten up, because so am I. )
[/b]

Oh great, now I gotta hire bouncers for the fall Double Regional to keep the Ruck family in line.....

[iagreen]

Since I now know about the cool google.video that Steve is using, and since there is no reason to let a thread about a race a month ago die, I'll add my video from to accompany the pic on page 4.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13790856962445

[Bob Burns]

Would anyone like to comment on the actions of the Blue ITS BMW during Mr. Flocks encounter with the wall after T5?[/b]

Unsafe? Maybe. The backstraight at IRP is a scary place. Concrete on one side and a chain-link fence on the other. And at the end is a turn that can either make or break your race. I never felt comfortable racing down the backstraight at IRP.

But, if he timed the pass until after the incident, it was a perfectly legal pass under our current rules.

The interesting aside here is that if we had FIA flag rules, which some folks have proposed for SCCA Club Racing, the track would have been yellow until the first green flag, which would have been at Turn 6. Therein lies the fodder for an interesting debate. Would the the FIA flag rules have made this situation safer? Or would it have taken away a prime opportunity for the guy in the blue BMW to take advantage of a situation?

As for start penalties, we stewards debate this ad nauseum. If you do a stop and go penalty, you provide instant feedback to the offending driver that you don't like jumped starts and you provide instant gratification to the other drivers in the field who might feel wronged by the jumped start. On the other hand, in sprint races like we typically run, a stop and go takes away a guy's race.

I'm sure Andy was much happier with the outcome in this situation than the alternative of being black-flagged for a stop and go. And if Andy was really in the wrong and the Chief Steward chose to take some action after the race, the guidelines from our Executive Stewars say the minimum penalty is 1 position in class. Would Pauly and the rest of the guys in ITS been satisifed with that?

Personally, I'm not in favor of stop and go penalties. I'd rather sort things out after the race.

Bob Burns
13 years as an SCCA Club Racing Steward
3 years as an SCCA Runoffs Operating Steward

[paulydee]

And if Andy was really in the wrong and the Chief Steward chose to take some action after the race, the guidelines from our Executive Stewars say the minimum penalty is 1 position in class. Would Pauly and the rest of the guys in ITS been satisifed with that?
[/b]

Thanks for the comments here Bob. It was good to get a stewards perspective.

I have opted not to comment further on the subject because I know no good will come of it.