Any e36 318's being built for ITA???

[Andy Bettencourt]

Just wait. You will see what they can do. I fully expect them to be a very viable choice on momentum stuff and a complete failure on power/point-shoot stuff.

People are making a HUGE mistake thinking they will be exponentially faster than SM's. It ain't gonna happen. Get one in traffic and they are sitting ducks. The reason SM's run so well is that there is nothing on the track to hold them up in corners. They will qualify well, but they will not race as well.

AB

[zracre]

hmmm i just watched one go 2.3 sec a lap faster than the pole SM...2330 (?) or 2380 with 135+- bhp to the wheels? see ya!! oh and top 5 in ITS...i believe 3rd or 4th in the race...maybe.2 or .3 off Buzz...definitely not a complete failure at a hp track...

[Andy Bettencourt]

hmmm i just watched one go 2.3 sec a lap faster than the pole SM...2330 (?) or 2380 with 135+- bhp to the wheels? see ya!! oh and top 5 in ITS...i believe 3rd or 4th in the race...maybe.2 or .3 off Buzz...definitely not a complete failure at a hp track... [/b]

Compare lap records, not Regional results for us...I bet the SM lap record is fater than the time you are looking at and the ITA record is faster than the Miata time you quote...no?

[zracre]

Nope...I believe the lap record in a SM is a 1:45:3xx and the ITA Miata was circulating at 1:43:3xx I cant be sure without more research, but I know the car was legal and well driven (ITA)...I have no clue as to the lap record in ITA...It may have fallen with the 1:43:3xx.....

[Fastfred92]

Come on Andy, don't act so smug :P At our little local track called VIR ( all 3.27 miles of it ) the recent ITA guys had a 1.6 ITA Miata cruising around at just over 1 second under the SM record and I am sold on the fact that the 1.8 WILL be a faster car! I am sure there is no coincidence you are building one, I would too if I could get my big ass down to min weight !!!!! The BMW e36 318 is going to have about the same RWHp when all is said and done but it will be hauling and extra 220 lbs, atleast I might make weight with one.

[zracre]

If I had known the 1.8 Miata was going to be the car to have for 2006/2007 I would have gotten my hands on one before the GSR...It is obviously going to be an overdog...the SM's are generally about 1.5-2.5 seconds slower than the front runners in ITA...that number is getting smaller with SM development. Now we have an unrestricted 40 over 1.8 with motec and gear ratios and adjustable suspension and open intake and open exhaust header and brake ducting and additional bracing and...and...and 200-300# lighter than the majority of the field! If my SM was a 1.8 it would be converted already! oh well...How did that one slip thru again I ask!!!

[Fastfred92]

And how I wish my car was a 94/95 and not a over restricted 2000 ! Well maybe a adhoc member will chime in with the "how"...........

[Andy Bettencourt]

Come on Andy, don't act so smug :P At our little local track called VIR ( all 3.27 miles of it ) the recent ITA guys had a 1.6 ITA Miata cruising around at just over 1 second under the SM record and I am sold on the fact that the 1.8 WILL be a faster car! I am sure there is no coincidence you are building one, I would too if I could get my big ass down to min weight !!!!! The BMW e36 318 is going to have about the same RWHp when all is said and done but it will be hauling and extra 220 lbs, atleast I might make weight with one. [/b]

Hey Bowie - how close are you to the 1:42.054 track record at RA?

Neither Bowie OR Mike Van Steenburg thinks either version is much better than the other. We shall see.

And how I wish my car was a 94/95 and not a over restricted 2000 ! Well maybe a adhoc member will chime in with the "how"........... [/b]

I have no idea what you are asking.

[Fastfred92]

Andy, the "how" I was talking about is how did the 1.8 Miata get in ITA at 2380, and last I checked Bowie was a 1.6 and hovering around that SM track record at RA now..

The reason, I know, is the formula but ( as you often point out with the e36 ITS car the dyno sheets don't lie) in restricted form in SM these motors exceed their OEM hp number to the wheels. It is very reasonable to assume that in unrestricted IT trim they will exceed the normal IT formula gains. Now I dont blame you for building one of these cars, it will be THE car but will you lead the charge to mod the weight in a year or two when these cars mop up and the Honda Acura guys cry foul ???

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, the "how" I was talking about is how did the 1.8 Miata get in ITA at 2380, and last I checked Bowie was a 1.6 and hovering around that SM track record at RA now..[/b]

If Bowie is 'hovering' around teh track record at RA now, he is 2 and a half seconds off the ITA record...isn't the net/net that people are worried that these will kill ITA?

The reason, I know, is the formula but ( as you often point out with the e36 ITS car the dyno sheets don't lie) in restricted form in SM these motors exceed their OEM hp number to the wheels. It is very reasonable to assume that in unrestricted IT trim they will exceed the normal IT formula gains. [/b]

Don't buy into the marketing machine. There are NO 130whp 94-97 SM's out there. And one thing you have to know is what they are doing to these engines at the top level that is SPECIFICALLY not allowed in IT. You have to know the in and outs of the details to understand that the % increase over a top SM motor is not going to be what you expect...but I am willing to let the results speak for themselves.

Now I dont blame you for building one of these cars, it will be THE car but will you lead the charge to mod the weight in a year or two when these cars mop up and the Honda Acura guys cry foul ??? [/b]

If my SM was a 1.6, that is what I would have built. Mine was just a 95 1.8. Bowie had an 'idea' of what the 1.8 would com in at for weight and he chose to re-body his 1.6....

For the record, I have already told the CRB that if my car makes significantly more than 'process power', I will be submitting the sheets and requesting the weight increase. It's documented.

[zracre]

Don't buy into the marketing machine. There are NO 130whp 94-97 SM's out there. And one thing you have to know is what they are doing to these engines at the top level that is SPECIFICALLY not allowed in IT. You have to know the in and outs of the details to understand that the % increase over a top SM motor is not going to be what you expect...but I am willing to let the results speak for themselves.

[/b]

of course there are no 130 WHP 1.8 SM's...they have centered FPR's!! thats why they make a restricted 118-123 hp...remove the FPR add 40 over add header/intake and add a motec...you dont think you can find 10 to 15 hp??

[Andy Bettencourt]

of course there are no 130 WHP 1.8 SM's...they have centered FPR's!! thats why they make a restricted 118-123 hp...remove the FPR add 40 over add header/intake and add a motec...you dont think you can find 10 to 15 hp??
[/b]

The SMAC has dyno charts showing the 47mm RP takes 2-3hp away. Remove the coating of the pistons that builders think is legal - and a LEGAL brain...and you will see realistic SM numbers for 1.8's.

Do I think one will make 10-15 more whp than 118-123? That is a 128whp to 138whp range. I think it is very possible to see a 135whp Miata with 115wtq in a full bore effort - and that is just what the model predicts. Decent power, pitiful torque, horrible aero and great handling. It will be strong on some stuff and not-so-much on others.

AB

[mlytle]

a well prepped and driven ita miata showed up at the hotly contested marrs series last summer. cleaned everone's clock. 7 wins in 8 starts and the new ita track record at summit point.

just a data point.

[Andy Bettencourt]

a well prepped and driven ita miata showed up at the hotly contested marrs series last summer. cleaned everone's clock. 7 wins in 8 starts and the new ita track record at summit point.

just a data point. [/b]

Bret has won in everything he has driven. His ITA times are within hundredths of like prepped and like driven HondAcura's.

It is a data point and I have followed it closely. Mike VanSteenburg has won in his ITA car as well. Again, nothing new for Mike except the car. Neither car has been to the ARRC and succeeds mostly on tracks where power is not the primary factor...as expected.

[Fastfred92]

For the record, I have already told the CRB that if my car makes significantly more than 'process power', I will be submitting the sheets and requesting the weight increase. It's documented.
[/b]

Thats fair, and all we could ask but how forthcoming will the other Miata guys be?

And what may I ask do you think the SM guys do engine wise that will not be done in IT ?????????

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thats fair, and all we could ask but how forthcoming will the other Miata guys be?[/b]

Shouldn't matter as my engine will have nothing left on the table.

And what may I ask do you think the SM guys do engine wise that will not be done in IT ????????? [/b]

Internal engine component coating. Not specifically disallowed in SM and done under something like a 'lubrication is free' allowance. The ITCS specifically does not allow this.

(On edit) Thought you might like to see a excerpt from Bob Stretch on driving an ITA 1.8...he commented on winning a race in one.

"I'll settle the mystery. The car is our old SM 1994 1.8. Is prepped to IT rules though we are not finished with the shocks/springs/swaybars. Car does have spherical bearings though, and a headter, and a good IT motor. I was VERY disappointed at the times the car turned, especially compared to my 99 SM times. However, we have a lot of work to do, the car had some bizarre handling problems that we need to sort out. It'll make a nice ITA car, but not a class beater. I thought it would gain more from the mods allowed, but it didn't gain as much as we expected. I expected the car to go at most 1.8 seconds a lap faster than SM, at the least 1 sec faster. We were well under that... Important to note I was on old SM Hoosiers (no new stuff at all), and I also didnt rev the car near as high as it ought to run."

YMMV.

[Fastfred92]

I think we have found a candidate!

[Z3_GoCar]

Looks good,

When you've got the title mine telling us how much? I suspect that it's much less than most would think possible.

James

[Fastfred92]

Looks good,

When you've got the title mine telling us how much? I suspect that it's much less than most would think possible.

James
[/b]

I will give you a hint how much it cost.......... This box of shocks cost 3 times what the donor cost !!!!

[Z3_GoCar]

So, just over $1k, that's a good price. All the 318's out here are at least 2.5k, with most of them closer to 5k. Did you see the grassroots article on their 318is buildup? I realize that theirs is an e-30, but its got the same engine. Might be worth keeping an eye on, but sounds like their next step is to install a DASC It seems this engine gets no respect when it's naturally asperated.