The BMW E36 ITS Car Should......

[dj10]

Bill & Chris,
I understand what you guys said and I'm glad that you think, like I'm sure so many others, that a higher class is fesiable. I also understand about IT and PCA, which to me is totally BS. The main reason I see is that no matter how good the CRB & ITCA is there going to miss a car because of some reason no matter what it is. Therefore they the club needs the ability to make some sort of a adjustment or PCA, what ever. It's going to happen, as true as our sun will implode. How many other cars could be classified in the higher go faster class. Chris made the example of the IS300, I'll bet if we think alittle there would or could be more. Someone's got to grab the bull by the balls and do something if the SCCA is going to continue thrive. Right now, it seem to take an act of Congress to get any damn thing done. Any good leader will not sweep problems under the rug but face them headon and make the hard decisions even if it's not the most popular.

Bill please don't quote anyone with a IQ some 3 points below a cucumber.

[zracre]

The integra has been in ITA for years too and got a weight adjustment...on a scale of power and weight, the difference will probably be similar on the BMW...i need to change springs/valving weight distribution and find more power somewhere, but it will still be competitive...stepping out of ITS because of weight difference now would be silly. I need to spend more on brakes and tires than before but thats racing!!!

[mlytle]

Marshall,

While I appreciate the costs associated w/ having to deal w/ those items, is it fair to the rest of the ITS communnity that the E36 should get special treatment, just because somebody screwed the pooch when the car was classified? The rest of ITS has had to deal w/ a car that was mis-classed for several years now. I don't see how they should have to deal w/ it getting special treatment on top of that. One of the real benefits of a defined classification process, is that it's supposed to be pretty objective. Data in, class and spec weight out.
[/b]

bill,
my point had nothing to do with what is fair, and was not intended to be a springboard for another tirade about bmw's getting this mythical "special treatment".

another poster stated adding weight was simple, an implied cheap no brainer. my point was simplyt that the premise was incorrect. adding weight was neither simple nor cheap. there is no simple or cheap way to screw with a car using rules to try and make it slower, 6 years after it is classed and people have invested large efforts to build to the existing rules. the continual bs about "throw 300lbs at it and be done with it" shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem.

[zracre]

bill,
my point had nothing to do with what is fair, and was not intended to be a springboard for another tirade about bmw's getting this mythical "special treatment".

another poster stated adding weight was simple, an implied cheap no brainer. my point was simplyt that the premise was incorrect. adding weight was neither simple nor cheap. there is no simple or cheap way to screw with a car using rules to try and make it slower, 6 years after it is classed and people have invested large efforts to build to the existing rules. the continual bs about "throw 300lbs at it and be done with it" shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem.
[/b]

Yea I guess I wouldnt know anything about being classed for 6 years then getting weight thrown at me...

[mlytle]

Yea I guess I wouldnt know anything about being classed for 6 years then getting weight thrown at me...
[/b]

i suspect you do, and never said you didn't. it is all bad, but 300 isn't in the same ball park as 100. even proportionally to current weight.

[zracre]

the beemer goes fine as a track car...i have seen modified ones way faster than it cars with the same brakes...a street 325 weighs about 3100 they dont tax the brakes as they are fine at the current weight. My car wears brakes as they are small for its old weight...now its heavier. my car makes 135 to 140 hp...and 127 ft lbs...power isnt an issue with the BMW you make 185 to 200+...id go with the weight as you can always tune more power w/o an SIR. I know if they stuff an SIR on my Teg (ITS or ITA) im outta here!

[Bill Miller]

bill,
my point had nothing to do with what is fair, and was not intended to be a springboard for another tirade about bmw's getting this mythical "special treatment".

another poster stated adding weight was simple, an implied cheap no brainer. my point was simplyt that the premise was incorrect. adding weight was neither simple nor cheap. there is no simple or cheap way to screw with a car using rules to try and make it slower, 6 years after it is classed and people have invested large efforts to build to the existing rules. the continual bs about "throw 300lbs at it and be done with it" shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem.
[/b]

"mythical 'special treatment'"? No myths about it Marshall. It's the only car that doesn't have to run at its process weight, the ONLY one. When one car gets treated different than all the rest, that's special treatment. You can call it 'mythical' all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's very real.

[seckerich]

I had an RX7 turbo II that I built for my wife as a track car. Weighed in at 3040 with driver and had the same brakes as my ITS car. Put down about 200-205 at the rear wheels and ran on 225-50-16 toyo's. I could run 1:21 - 1:22 all day at Savannah at a track day and never have a problem with brakes or tires. Thats pole time for ITS and the same power, weight, and tire size as the BMW can run. Don't tell me your world will end with the weight if it comes down to that-doesn't fly here.

[Joe Harlan]

I had an RX7 turbo II that I built for my wife as a track car. Weighed in at 3040 with driver and had the same brakes as my ITS car. Put down about 200-205 at the rear wheels and ran on 225-50-16 toyo's. I could run 1:21 - 1:22 all day at Savannah at a track day and never have a problem with brakes or tires. Thats pole time for ITS and the same power, weight, and tire size as the BMW can run. Don't tell me your world will end with the weight if it comes down to that-doesn't fly here.
[/b]

Steve, I don't think marshall is saying the world will end but his point about it not being the cheapest or simplest solution is valid......
You guys are gonna just have to excuse Bill is his been on the special bus for quite sometime now.....(kidding bill)

[mlytle]

Steve, I don't think marshall is saying the world will end but his point about it not being the cheapest or simplest solution is valid......
You guys are gonna just have to excuse Bill is his been on the special bus for quite sometime now.....(kidding bill)
[/b]

thanks joe. you got it.

i didn't say the world would end. i didn't say the chassis couldn't handle it. i just said it wouldn't be as easy as some folks imply.

[seckerich]

Steve, I don't think marshall is saying the world will end but his point about it not being the cheapest or simplest solution is valid......
You guys are gonna just have to excuse Bill is his been on the special bus for quite sometime now.....(kidding bill)
[/b]

Probably true Joe. We used about 50# stiffer springs on all corners and more agressive shock valving but still a very comparable package. If the SIR works it will make better racing in the long run.