Why not just go to open ECU rule.

[wm577]

Some OEM ECU's can be totaly reprogramed, and some have large enough ECU boxs than you can stuff the guts of a stand alone inside. However some cars have no options for reprogming or modifying, so why not just open the ECU rule up so everyone can tune the car in?

[gsbaker]

Oh, oh.

Sorry wm, but I couldn't resist. Try the search function--this topic has come up more than once.

[jhooten]

oh! oh! oh! I know, I know.

Everyone has to send their ECU in to HQ where they test it and seal it and send it back to you (for a nominal fee of course) prior to the first race of the season like the FIA does. Then at anytime during the season if the seal is broken you are DQ'ed for the rest of the year and put on probation for three more years.

Yeah, that'll work.

[Marcus Miller]

Then at anytime during the season if the seal is broken you are DQ'ed for the rest of the year and put on probation for three more years.

Yeah, that'll work.
[/b]

My carb will like that!



marcus

[wm577]

ok, did a search and some reading.. wow, can-o-worms!

Like SCCA is going to bench test each ECU to make sure it's stock and not chipped, or modded in anyway.... I know you were joking though Well, for the record my stance on this is that it's impossible to police the stock ECU rule so they need to stop messing around and just have open ECU tuning in IT. SCCA is prob. assuming we are all running chipped re-mapped ECU's, for classing anyway. At least with an open ECU rule the racers who have non-hackable ECU's will have an option.

[zracre]

I have no problem with the open ECU rule...its when the open ECU rule creeps into the stock unmodified ECU connection and harness wont work on my open ECU rule...Once that harness gets the razor, the sky will fall and everyone will be running for their lives!!! I think the harness is the key to keeping ECU's in check...

[Eagle7]

I think the harness is the key to keeping ECU's in check...
[/b]

Sounds right to me.

[Matt Rowe]

How so? I would think OEM style sensors being just as good? After all if you can't collect additional data then what are you gaining? Stock wiring didn't prevent cheating before the ECU rule was opened up. I don't think it is helping us now either.

[zracre]

the stock ECU in some cars has a speed limiter...if you require stock ECU's then some people might as well just sell the cars as parts...some instances need modification. SCCA cant police it so the rule is good as it sits now. when people and ecu's get so sophisticated that you can add traction control and stability control, then we have a problem...I'm sure there are some BMW's out there playing with it but good luck getting it in the box with no additional sensors and wiring...

[pfcs49]

it's reliably rumored that some NASCAR teams have gotten away with a traction control system in their ignition boxes! SCCA tech would put a quick end to that!

[Matt Rowe]

when people and ecu's get so sophisticated that you can add traction control and stability control, then we have a problem...I'm sure there are some BMW's out there playing with it but good luck getting it in the box with no additional sensors and wiring...
[/b]

Look at change in rpm in a specific gear and engine speed and limit spark to make sure the engine doesn't speed up faster than it could if the tires are sticking. It's traction control without a single wheel speed sensor. All you need is a fast enough processor and enough time, money and motivation to do the development. The current rule does nothing to prevent this, although the addition of a dial to vary the programming according to weather conditions would be useful but illegal under the current rule. I would say it's not technically practical, but then I would have said the same about cramming a MOTEC in a stock box a few years ago.

[Greg Amy]

...when people and ecu's get so sophisticated that you can add traction control and stability control...[/b]

You boys are making enough power to spin your driving wheels with a limited slip? We gotta talk, son... <_< ...and you would hate stability control in a race car. - GA

[gran racing]

What&#39;s wrong with using piggy back systems?

[Joe Harlan]

the stock ECU in some cars has a speed limiter...if you require stock ECU&#39;s then some people might as well just sell the cars as parts...some instances need modification. SCCA cant police it so the rule is good as it sits now. when people and ecu&#39;s get so sophisticated that you can add traction control and stability control, then we have a problem...I&#39;m sure there are some BMW&#39;s out there playing with it but good luck getting it in the box with no additional sensors and wiring...
[/b]

From the AEM install information:
Auxiliary engine controls In addition to controlling ignition timing and fuel delivery for an engine, the AEM PEMS is capable of performing numerous auxiliary functions. These functions include but are not limited to: • Variable valve control for any make of engine • Staged injectors (sequential on 4 & 6 cyl. engines, batch on 8 cylinder engines.) • Idle speed control motor with either a stepper motor or a duty cycled solenoid • Dual RPM control • Nitrous Oxide control • Waste Gate control • Thermostatic fan control • Transmission control • Ignition gear cut control • Traction control These are only a few items that the AEM PEMS can operate. Virtually any device that needs to be switched on or off in accordance with a given set of vehicle parameters is controllable with the AEM PEMS. Additionally, any device that requires a pulse-width-modulated output can be used with the AEM PEMS. In the event that all of the injector drives are not utilized, the remaining ones can be employed to perform duty-cycled functions. Refer to Appendix A for a full list of features of the AEM PEMS. :


And it plugs directly into my harness and uses factory sensors....It would take about 3 hours to stuff it into the OE box....Not when it happens, its already here...

[Renaultfool]

$1,607 from "The Parts Bin". Don&#39;t Quaffes cost about $1,400 plus installation? I don&#39;t remember any large problem with that one. It isn&#39;t unobtainium. Mega Squirt is cheaper for the DIY guys.

I&#39;m not saying that this is the way we should go, but we must address the ECU situation sooner than later as there are many cars that are unusable without ECU modification. For some cars this modification will be realitively cheap because their popularity will cause the volume of modification to drive down the cost. For other models the R&D to fix the problems will be cost prohibative. I think that once everyone grasps that the old carb and distributor cars are pretty much gone we will have to come up with a reasonable way for all competitors to address this problem. The aftermarket ECU will probably win out when we really decide to look into it.

The club could specify a brand and model, like the AEM, that we would all run. The programing would be easy to check with a laptop, so tech at each race could do it if they wanted. Maybe the club could work a deal for all competitors to buy their ECUs, like the Transponder deal.

I know many will hollar creap, but blame the car manufacturers, they are the ones that keep updating the electronics every year. LIke it or not, we have no choice but to try and find an answer to the new technology we can all be comfortable with.

[GKR_17]

Look at change in rpm in a specific gear and engine speed and limit spark to make sure the engine doesn&#39;t speed up faster than it could if the tires are sticking. It&#39;s traction control without a single wheel speed sensor. All you need is a fast enough processor and enough time, money and motivation to do the development. The current rule does nothing to prevent this, although the addition of a dial to vary the programming according to weather conditions would be useful but illegal under the current rule. I would say it&#39;s not technically practical, but then I would have said the same about cramming a MOTEC in a stock box a few years ago.
[/b]

That&#39;s the way I heard the NASCAR boys did it. Only problem is the computer has no way to know which gear you&#39;re in. You&#39;d have to tune it for one gear (which works for some NASCAR events), but you&#39;d end up with the traction control active the whole time your in a gear lower than the one you tuned to, not exactly a good sutuation in road racing. And as was already stated, even at the legendary 250hp some cars had (past tense), there&#39;s not much benefit for TC in IT.

Grafton

[Joe Harlan]

That&#39;s the way I heard the NASCAR boys did it. Only problem is the computer has no way to know which gear you&#39;re in. You&#39;d have to tune it for one gear (which works for some NASCAR events), but you&#39;d end up with the traction control active the whole time your in a gear lower than the one you tuned to, not exactly a good sutuation in road racing. And as was already stated, even at the legendary 250hp some cars had (past tense), there&#39;s not much benefit for TC in IT.Grafton
[/b]

May be true for a top level driver but I promise it is a help for anything less...(me included) Oh and mine does not just work in one gear..