It's here...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thanks Marty.

Haven't looked at all the links, but geez, what's up w/ that run group? 13 classes listed, 9 of which actually had cars entered, out of 28 total cars??? :119: :119:

Looked at all four results sheets. Car looks fast. Best lap time I saw was a 1:31.499. What's the ITS record at Gratten?
[/b]

1:29.0 is the track record.

AB

[Bill Miller]

Thanks Andy. Do you know when that was set? 2.5 seconds off the record is hardly what I'd call a 'killer car'. Not that it means anything, but 2.5 seconds off the ITB record at Summit Point barely gets you in the top 10.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thanks Andy. Do you know when that was set? 2.5 seconds off the record is hardly what I'd call a 'killer car'. Not that it means anything, but 2.5 seconds off the ITB record at Summit Point barely gets you in the top 10.
[/b]

This year. Huffmaster.

AB

[Eagle7]

Thanks Andy. Do you know when that was set? 2.5 seconds off the record is hardly what I'd call a 'killer car'. Not that it means anything, but 2.5 seconds off the ITB record at Summit Point barely gets you in the top 10.
[/b]

At the time that the Supra was there, the record was something over 1:31, IIRC. It was broken three or four times this past summer. The day (same run group actually) that Huffmaster ran the 1:29.0 an ITA car (Colin Botha) ran 1:29.5.

[R2 Racing]

That's not the numbers I have. During the May 28-29, 2005 regional at Grattan, I have that Tim Selbey set the ITS track record in his RX-7 at 1:30.101. Colin Botha set the ITA track record in his CRX at 1:30.570. I finished 2nd to Colin that day and ran a 1:31.144 - Colin was flying!

The 2003 spring event there was the only time I have ever been on track (I was in my old ITC car) with that Supra and it was a freaking beast down the straights. I think it was on Saturday when he got punted off in turn 1 into the gravel trap. He drove up through the field to finish as high as he did.

[zracre]

http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=220747

mylaps results showing colin at a 29.5 and huffmaster at 29 flat...that CRX is REALLY fast...it will be interesting to see how they do with weight...

[R2 Racing]

Ahh yes, I see now. Those are from the September regional that I wasn't at. The times I put up were from the May regional I attended. I didn't realize that they had been broken again.

Crap....I think I could now do a 1:30.5, but a 1:29.5? That's just rediculous.

[Eagle7]

Ahh yes, I see now. Those are from the September regional that I wasn't at. The times I put up were from the May regional I attended. I didn't realize that they had been broken again.

Crap....I think I could now do a 1:30.5, but a 1:29.5? That's just rediculous.
[/b]

Yeah, I've been pecking away at it and finally got within a couple seconds of the ITS record and then they go and knock 2 seconds off it. Gonna be a LONG time before I get there.

[JeffYoung]

Wow...just got back from the BMW board....while I understand people wanting to protect their turf, some pretty amazing stuff getting said over there.

Not to beat a dead horse, but doing it anyway: the genesis of ALL of this seems pretty simple to me. The 325 was initially classed at a weight (2850) that was (a) unrealistic given its curb weight and ( too low given its potential power output in IT trim.

The CRB should have anticipated and corrected (a), but I'm not sure anyone expected an ITS car making 225 at the crank.

In any event, back to the root problem. I would have far more sympathy for the BMW guys, and would be adamantly opposed to ANY restriction on power output (and still am, for that matter, since I think the weight correction was the way to go) if one of them could justify the 2850 weight.

We tried this before and we didn't get many responses, the only one I recall being someone posting curb weight numbers for a 318.

BMWCCA curb weight for the car is in excess of 3000 lbs. BMW guys, tell me why (as are most cars) your car should not be near that weight?

If you accept the car is light, then I think you have to accept that something needed to done. I wish it hadn't been the SIR, but that was the CRB's choice (not Andy's, not Jake's, etc.). But do you agree that with the weight where it is, and 225 crank hp proven with dyno plots, that something ahd to be done?

[Fred Fox]

What's the target hp for the RX7 in ITS?

Fred

[mlytle]

What's the target hp for the RX7 in ITS?

Fred
[/b]

since it is the poster child for the perfect its car, it should be itcs weight divided by the magic its lb/hp number, which i think was 12.9

[dj10]

since it is the poster child for the perfect its car, it should be itcs weight divided by the magic its lb/hp number, which i think was 12.9
[/b]

I wonder what Rob Huffmaster's rx7 is putting out?

[Greg Amy]

I wonder what Rob Huffmaster's rx7 is putting out?
[/b]

You guys have to quit using Huffmaster as a data point. He is not like the others...

SORRY! Sorry! ...couldn't resist... Back to my corner...

[seckerich]

You guys have to quit using Huffmaster as a data point. He is not like the others...

SORRY! Sorry! ...couldn't resist... Back to my corner...
[/b]

Greg you're killin me :P

[dj10]

You guys have to quit using Huffmaster as a data point. He is not like the others...

SORRY! Sorry! ...couldn't resist... Back to my corner...
[/b]

I wasn't using Rob's rx7 for anything, just asking a question. Please don't jump to any conclusions.

[JeffYoung]

Marshall, DJ, someone....please justify 2850 at 189 stock crank hp.....

[Fred Fox]

If the SIR does what it's said to be able to do, then I think the idea is a modern solution to an issue that will confront IT from now on as more modern and powerful cars become candidates for IT. However, the E36 situation needs some tweaking. At the moment we have:

RX7 target HP = 181 rwhp
181 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hp = 2680 lb race weight

BMW with 27mm SIR target hp = 220 hp crank = 180 rwhp assuming 18% driveline loss
180 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hp = 2665 lb race weight

So, the E36 should drop from 2850 to 2665 with the restrictor, or to keep it at the current weight a less restrictive SIR should be spec'd to give it 193 rwhp. 193 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hr = 2850 lb.

Adders and subtractors: They cancel out

BMW has bigger brakes and more torque than RX-7. RX-7 has lower CG and better aero, so it's a wash.

Fred

[seckerich]

If the SIR does what it's said to be able to do, then I think the idea is a modern solution to an issue that will confront IT from now on as more modern and powerful cars become candidates for IT. However, the E36 situation needs some tweaking. At the moment we have:

RX7 target HP = 181 rwhp
181 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hp = 2680 lb race weight

BMW with 27mm SIR target hp = 220 hp crank = 180 rwhp assuming 18% driveline loss
180 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hp = 2665 lb race weight

So, the E36 should drop from 2850 to 2665 with the restrictor, or to keep it at the current weight a less restrictive SIR should be spec'd to give it 193 rwhp. 193 rwhp * 14.8 lb/hr = 2850 lb.

Adders and subtractors: They cancel out

BMW has bigger brakes and more torque than RX-7. RX-7 has lower CG and better aero, so it's a wash.

Fred
[/b]

Never seen a wash with 200+ ft/lb torque across 3000 to 4000 rpm spread against 130-134 ft/lb and very short span. With your numbers the RX7 must make 222-225 crank HP---lots of luck. If the bimmer has that driveline loss you need to do some homework.

[Fred Fox]

I think the target rwhp I used for the RX-7 is accepted by most as an accurate number. It's not the highest one I've heard discussed. The powertrain loss was a conservative assumption. Even if you use a less conservative assumption, the min weight for the E36 with the SIR comes out of the equation lower than where it is today. That leaves us with the adders and subtractors. The BMW has some benefits over the RX-7, but the RX-7 has some benefits over the BMW too. I'd like to understand how the subjective part of the weight spec was made.

Fred

[Ron Earp]

Jeff, you will not get an answer on curb weight because there is no justification for it. The BMW is FAR underneth its curb weight and folks want to take it further. While all the other cars race at something close to or a little less than curb weight, the BMW is far less - basically to make the car fit into ITS.