What makes IT, IT and Production, Production

[Renaultfool]

In the very early days of the Radial challange it was not so much that way. You had to use the standard carb until the mid 70s, and the drive train had to be from the model used. Later on it got kind of wild, closer to SCCA GT rules. As matter of fact I converted Bobby Archers championship Alliance to GT-4 by moving the fuel cell.
The point is that those modifications have been used much earlier than you might guess, and don't in some cases have to cost a fortune to do.
In a Pinto with a single lower control arm you can eliminate the compliance of the inner rubber bushing, and gain the negative chamber you need by simply cutting off the end of the arm, welding in a nut, and screwing in a Heim joint. The whole thing costs about $20 compared to the cost of hard bushings, legal ones, and offset bushings/chamber plates on newer cars.
I am not suggesting that we do that, but to some, weighing $20 against $150 per side is tempting, and some can justify to themselves that it makes no competitive difference.
If I am allowed to spend all the money in the world to legally adjust my chamber does it really make it more fair for me to spend the money to do it that way as opposed to doing the same thing on the cheap, not currently allowed by our rules?
Is that why I have seen several Honda CRX rear upper links that have been cut and welded shorter? They have negative chamber for next to nothing cost wise as opposed to buying the high priced parts from someone's sponser.
Maybe we should just think about what the wording of some of our rules means and what it does cost wise. If it is an allowable mod, then the methodology in many cases only lines someones pocket.
I still like the first list.

[Knestis]

Originally posted by Renaultfool@Jan 14 2006, 01:00 AM
... you can eliminate the compliance of the inner rubber bushing, and gain the negative chamber you need by simply cutting off the end of the arm, welding in a nut, and screwing in a Heim joint. The whole thing costs about $20 compared to the cost of hard bushings, legal ones, and offset bushings/chamber plates on newer cars. ...

No question. That's been standard practice on rally cars for decades. There are probably dozens of similar ideas that could be implemented on an IT-type car, making it stronger, faster, arguably safer, and easier to fix but the REAL trick is writing a rule that allows those relatively cheap, high return-on-investment changes but still constrains things so they don't get out of hand.

A lightbulb went on for me back in the late '70s, when someone explained how TransAm cars could have fabricated tubular suspension pieces. The rules, ostensibly with the intent of allowing the kind of thing described above, allowed suspension components to be modified, lightened, or reinforced (safety's important, y'know). Builders were only a couple of iterations down the logical path that opened up to them when some clever Dick decided he could "lighten" an A-arm completely away, and reinforce the empty space between the chassis and upright with chromemoly tubing and sheet metal.

We haven't used the term "slippery slope" yet here but that's how it applies.

K

PS - I've been thinking in the last week that it would be a really interesting technical exercise to "modify" the rear sway bar (aka the trailing arm axle) on a Golf. It wouldn't be particulary hard for someone with mad metal skilz to build a new one that was half the weight and twice as stiff, incorporated hard bushings everywhere, and included provision for easily adjustment. Based on the wording of the rule and the GCR definition of "sway bar," it would be completely within the rules.

[lateapex911]

While it might seem like just hacking off the end and welding on a proper heim joint would be the way to go for expenses, etc, remember that it would allow certain cars to do things that they just couldn't do with a stock based suspension ....at any price.

Remember, cars are classed at weights that take into account all sorts of variables, including crappy stock suspensions, and with the knowledge of what builders can, and can not do with them.

Rewriting rules to allow wholesale changes wouldn't be appropriate.

A slippery slope?.....more like a black diamond.

[ddewhurst]

***While it might seem like just hacking off the end and welding on a proper heim joint would be the way to go for expenses***

Jake, not aimed at you. What some people forget is that many people do not weld & do not want to weld. All of a sudden the addition for that rod end & the expense just went through the roof.

ED, when people want to do that stuff it's time to step up to the plate. Opps, I mean move to Production.

***.....more like a black diamond.***

The black dimond at Jackson Hole were manageable it was/is the yellow that's the dooer iner. :119: NO thanks. Sorry Jake that's where they have real mountains.