Car too Low? '83 GTI ITB car

[RSTPerformance]

I think you could legaly "shift" the motor with stock mounts, at least you can on an Audi.

Where do you purchase ecentric control arm bushings...

Raymond

[Bill Miller]

I think you could legaly "shift" the motor with stock mounts, at least you can on an Audi.

Where do you purchase ecentric control arm bushings...

Raymond
[/b]

You've probably got to have them fabricated. I've never heard of an off-the-shelf source for them. Maybe Bildon knows?

Spares w/o a doubt!! I used to carry two complete corners for the my ITB Rabbit. Had new axles, new hubs, fresh calipers w/ new pads, new rotors, control arms w/ new ball joints, everything. Also had individual spare parts (mostly for other VW racers ). If something needed changing, the whole thing went on. Total of 11 bolts and a brake line, per side (2 strut bolts, 3 control arm bolts, and 6 axle bolts). Could change a side in ~ 10-15 minutes (10 for sure w/ air tools). The stuff that came off got rebuilt and put into the spares box for the next trip.

[Ned Stevens]

Back to my original point. I have read with interest all of the responses, but one question still has not been answered. I can understand overworking the cv joints with extreme angles-I can understand the problem with the axles coming straight out from trans to the hub (problem of them being too long) but what if the axles are the same angle going up from the trans to the hub in lowered form as going down from the trans to the hub in stock form. I drive an '83 VW GTI everyday and the axles on that car are angled down to the hubs(approx. 3 degrees) So what is the difference - other than bump steer toeing out under compression as opposed to toeing in in stock height under compression? Thanks for reading my rambling, Al Stephenson ITB #14

[joeg]

I think Bump steer is a function of where the rack and pinion is positioned. I doubt there is much adjustability there and the other way to cure it--tie rod ends--is also a legal dead end.

[Knestis]

Common thinking is that, while a very low ride height might take the drive axle angles back to where they are not binding in plunge, the resulting negative angle of the lower control arm will put the roll center in a sub-optimal position.

That said, the BSI Golfs ran at CMP in 2004 with front ride heights that were lower than this approach dictates. With sufficiently stiff springs (or bars?) to limit front roll, who knows for SURE without actually testing a bunch of options?

That's the problem with "common thinking" and simply following the pack.

K

[msogren]

The lower A arms pointing up give a very high roll center. According to all the experts and the engineering books.
But. The fast cars are under the flat arm height. Even if the A arms are set to point down alittle at rest, the arm moves as soon as you turn the car hard and the arm then points up anyway.
I was not clear if the car is a street car or race car
As for the street A 1 car; Lower the car until the arms are just above flat. set the camber and toe. you will need some real shox (Bilstein sport ? ) and springs( 250 to 350) to keep it from hitting bottom. use a strut brace. Every thing is a compromise the ride will get harsher . if it bottoms too much . or you live in the north, keep it up some. The strut bearing and fenders take a lot of abuse when done this way. Try the collasped rubber strut mounts with springs up to about 300#. over that spring rate, the strut bearing deflects more than the spring, and becomes the spring.
race springs are maybe 450 front /300 rear with a rear sway bar/open diff. (I use less)

You pick up a lot of driveability/turn in with some rear toe out(8-10 mm per side) and about 1* camber .
it allows a lot softer rear spring and wont spin as often.
5- 6mm is about zero scrub for 1degree camber.
WFM. MM

[evanwebb]

Hey Mike (or anyone), how do you recommend adjusting camber and toe on the stub axles? I find the little blue plastic thingies to be less than satisfactory...

The lower A arms pointing up give a very high roll center. According to all the experts and the engineering books.
But. The fast cars are under the flat arm height. Even if the A arms are set to point down alittle at rest, the arm moves as soon as you turn the car hard and the arm then points up anyway.
I was not clear if the car is a street car or race car
As for the street A 1 car; Lower the car until the arms are just above flat. set the camber and toe. you will need some real shox (Bilstein sport ? ) and springs( 250 to 350) to keep it from hitting bottom. use a strut brace. Every thing is a compromise the ride will get harsher . if it bottoms too much . or you live in the north, keep it up some. The strut bearing and fenders take a lot of abuse when done this way. Try the collasped rubber strut mounts with springs up to about 300#. over that spring rate, the strut bearing deflects more than the spring, and becomes the spring.
race springs are maybe 450 front /300 rear with a rear sway bar/open diff. (I use less)

You pick up a lot of driveability/turn in with some rear toe out(8-10 mm per side) and about 1* camber .
it allows a lot softer rear spring and wont spin as often.
5- 6mm is about zero scrub for 1degree camber.
WFM. MM
[/b]

[msogren]

I use steel washers. And a "Carquest" (for the VW) shim across the bottom bolts, plus a washer
The bottom front bolt gets about .060, the bottom rear gets about 020 shim The bolts get blue locktiite. This bolts them down crooked but has not come apart , ever.
This really transforms a pushing car. maybe a lttle nervous in the rain. but a drstic improvement.
I use .5in or more for a solo car and more for a roundy round car. The dynamic weight transfer is what gets this to work, plus, I hate a pushing car.
Welded diff can run a straighter rear, with more camber.IMHO. MM

[itracer]

Try these. They are made for racing:

http://www.srsvw.com/parts/partdetail.asp?pid=93