Car too Low? '83 GTI ITB car

[Ned Stevens]

After last year (My 1st year) I was told that my car is too low. I ran the car for four race weekends plus drivers school -first time the car had been on track since '98 and every time I ran it I realigned the car and dropped it down a bit more. I ended up lowering it approx. 2 '' frt. and 2.25'' rear. In my mind I am thinking lower is always better, yes-no-what? I am no where near the 5'' min. ride height. Now to the point- BUMP STEER- at what height is the car too low. Wide open question I realize but, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, Al

[Greg Amy]

Ned, there is such a thing as "too low", especially on a McPherson strut car. As a general rule (VERY general) you're looking to make sure that the car is not dropped so far that your front control arms droop down towards the car. To keep the geometry acceptable, make sure they slope down towards the wheels... - GA

[Bildon]

Flat A-arms are geometrically optimal. But a slight inclination toward the CL of the vehical is acceptable if your running a stiff spring and the car doesn't roll much. It will get you closer to the CG target I think you're looking for. Also forget about postive rake. VWs are too slow. (You have an air dam?) Drop the rear as far as you can. :119: It's ugly but that's how the factory used to set the cars up back in the day.

[Bill Miller]

Bill pretty much hit it. It's hilarious to watch some of the street crowd that thinks their slammed cars actually handle. There's so little weight in the back of those cars, you want to get what little is there, as low as possible.

[joeg]

Rabbits will generally appear to ride higher than a lot of other cars and actually, they need to because of the "bump steer" problem identified above.

[Dave Zaslow]

Joeg, tell that to the Weisberg/Curry/Washay car. Slammed and very good handling, but tough to drive. Spring rates do matter. That car's are extremely high. No suspension movement means no bump steer.

Ned, what's your suspension set-up?

Dave Z

[Bildon]

Oh and do a few laps with the car at minimum weight (1/4 tank of fuel) then come in and fill it. Sure you just added 50-70 lbs but it's right where you need it... I bet you go faster ;-)

[Knestis]

True. I did a 3.5 hour enduro by myself and it was amazing, changing nothing else, how much better it was after the fuel stop. It's hard to notice unless you do it in back-to-back laps.

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Bildon@Jan 5 2006, 07:02 AM
Oh and do a few laps with the car at minimum weight (1/4 tank of fuel) then come in and fill it. Sure you just added 50-70 lbs but it's right where you need it... I bet you go faster ;-)

[snapback]70128[/snapback]

I can attest to this too, especially in an A1 Rabbit GTI. Car always handled better on a full tank than it did when it was close to empty. Fortunately, I never ran it that low, as it would burp on the hard RH turns (like the carousel at Summit Point), due to the pick-up problem in the tank.

[Ned Stevens]

Thanks for all the responses- At present I am running #350 rates frt. and rear (car came with this) and Bilstein Sport frt and rear-I was just trying to survive my 1st year in one piece, so I really did not touch much- other than the ride height. This year I am thinking more like Koni adjustables on frt- #550 frt and #450 rear springs. Will raise the car in the frt-start with full tank-switch to Hoosiers from TOYOs and see what happens. Thanks again, NED

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Ned Stevens@Jan 6 2006, 08:37 PM
Thanks for all the responses- At present I am running #350 rates frt. and rear (car came with this) and Bilstein Sport frt and rear-I was just trying to survive my 1st year in one piece, so I really did not touch much- other than the ride height. This year I am thinking more like Koni adjustables on frt- #550 frt and #450 rear springs. Will raise the car in the frt-start with full tank-switch to Hoosiers from TOYOs and see what happens. Thanks again, NED

[snapback]70326[/snapback]

Ned,

You may want to talk to Lee Grimes from Koni, about the specific shocks you're going to use, w/ those springs. He'll be able to tell you if the valving is up to the task, w/ those rates.

[GITroadracer]

Be careful with the half shaft damaging the seals on the diff. If you lower it too much and run standard length shafts they will, after a while, damage the inner flange seal and let gearbox fluid into your inner CV joints and eventually fail them. You can either run shorter shafts of raise the car to avoid this.

[JeffYoung]

Well, actually, you can't run the shorter a-arms. Illegal.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Under what rule would shortening the half-shafts be legal?

AB

[JamesB]

I think Jeff is thinking control arms not axle shafts.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by JamesB@Jan 17 2006, 10:46 PM
I think Jeff is thinking control arms not axle shafts.

[snapback]71139[/snapback]

I am referring to the 12th post in the thread and to a car for sale I saw recently. I would think any change to axle shafts/stub axels/half shafts (insert your terminology here) would be illegal as well - I just can't find any reference to it being explicitly called out as an approved change...

...could it be the "change in track to accomodate larger tires" rule is what people are hanging their hat on? Please say it ain't so...

AB

[Bill Miller]

Andy,

I agree w/ you. I've seen shortened axles available, but I have no idea what rule people are using to justify them.

[JLawton]

Agreed, I don't see anything that would allow it. Believe me, if I thought I could do it, I would have done it on the GTi....

[JamesB]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Jan 17 2006, 11:49 PM
I am referring to the 12th post in the thread and to a car for sale I saw recently. I would think any change to axle shafts/stub axels/half shafts (insert your terminology here) would be illegal as well - I just can't find any reference to it being explicitly called out as an approved change...

...could it be the "change in track to accomodate larger tires" rule is what people are hanging their hat on? Please say it ain't so...

AB

[snapback]71140[/snapback]

Your right, I didnt even think about it. I just know that there is axle bind if you lower too much on mk1 and mk2 VW's but I dont think thats an issue when your talking about optimum gemoetry vs just slamming the car.

[JLawton]

Originally posted by JamesB@Jan 18 2006, 09:19 AM
but I dont think thats an issue when your talking about optimum gemoetry vs just slamming the car.

[snapback]71165[/snapback]

I "think" (I'm no expert) that even at a correct ride height and depending on how you have your camber tuned in: whether it's by the camber plates, which will pinch the axle in, or with the bolts in the strut, which will not push the axle in.
To ge the proper camber on one side of my car, I have to have the camber plate pushed all the way towards the engine, which pushes the axle towards the tranny. I had a CV joint blow up on me and we think it was due to the axle shredding the seal and sending chips into the CV joint.

Hope I'm making sense...........