Jekyll Secret Meeting

[Mattberg]

Maybe that's inappropriate as you see it Jake, but Alabama's RE and his friends have been doing exactly that to us for a couple of months now. He says there was no discussion of this plan and when we prove there was he says it was only a discussion of an "idea". He says there was no plan written and when we prove there was a written plan he says it was nothing. When we prove it was selectively distributed he redistributes it seven months after the fact and claims it was distributed. When we prove there is a secret meeting planned they get someone else to come here and call it a private "cocktail party". Then we find out yesterday afternoon that they have a SEDIV agenda in which this plan is included? In addition I find out that Barry is out lobbying the non-racing regions to back it? What am I supposed to think? He's assembling votes of these little non-racing regions because they have as much power in their single vote as any racing region. One region has two people!!!! This is a total manipulation of a broken system. It's not about Florida being greedy it's about Alabama being greedy. We just want to race and Barry doesn't want us to so he can make money and be a big man.

Dick, if you want to question my ethics you better back it up with something. I have not lied or misrepresented anything for personal gain like those I've exposed here. As far as behavior, I never thought the first amendment mentioned such. I'll have to go back and check.

[Greg Amy]

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are!

Hey, Killer, don't expect the world to come to you. If this really means something to you, do something about it: MOVE! And before you get off on another rant, BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!! Back in the late 80's I lived in North Texas and raced Nationals in SowDiv. My CLOSEST SowDiv track was Texas World Speedway, a 6-hour drive (yeah, driving to the race track, Killer: I couldn't afford a truck and trailer. Called "do whatcha gotta do".) Maybe we'd get to race in Abilene once a year, maybe we'd get to Ardmore OK or Big Spring TX (all airport circuits, woo-hoo.) For 1991 I changed my membership to MidDiv, but I was still faced with long drives to Memphis, Gateway (?), Hallet, Topeka, and other places that just weren't too close to home.

So you know what I did in 1992 to fix that? I MOVED TO CONNECTICUT. That's right: my primary reason for moving from Texas to Connecticut in 1992 was for racing, to be near Lime Rock Park and other tracks (NHIS, Summit Point, Watkins Glen) and to be near my major sponsor. I made the effort to find a job here, I got a sponsor here, and me and a buddy worked together to get a new Showroom Stock program for 1992. Worked out pretty good, I think: still employed, married, nice house, high heating bills, socialistic political climate. Life's good.

It's called effort, Killer. Motivation. Desire. Got some, or you just wanna reason to bitch?

Shut up and move.

[dickita15]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 16 2006, 09:29 AM
Dick, if you want to question my ethics you better back it up with something. I have not lied or misrepresented anything for personal gain like those I've exposed here. As far as behavior, I never thought the first amendment mentioned such. I'll have to go back and check.

[snapback]71006[/snapback]

Matt you said
"When we do I am pushing part of our club's bylaws about ethics and behavior and make sure you are ousted for good by National."

it is my opinion that your behavior in this and other rants is in violation of those bylaws.

[Mattberg]

Greg,

I think you are misunderstanding the situation. We have no problem here Florida. We have all the tracks and races a rcer could wish for. Alabama wants to take them away so they can be competitive! I should move so a region with 25 racers can throw events with no competition? We just want to be left alone and they WANT US to travel. Exactly the reason you moved to CT. Where would I move to to "make the effort"? Birmingham? Atlanta? Just so I could go six hours or eight hours for four races instead of being within 3 for 12? Where would you suggest I move to if they move races AWAY from me?

Dick,

Find the rule in the bylaws that says free specch equates to behavior detrimental to the club. You may not like what I say but I haven't lied and I haven't misrepresented anything as an elected official. I'm also not an elected official lobbying votes based on personal gain and in the pursuit of admitted financial gain. I am not an elected official conducting division meetings with official agendas and then selectively inviting people and closing it out to anyone else. I am not an elected official who distributed a plan discussed by the Board and then denied it only to be shown up as a blatant liar when the documented copy showed up. I am not an elected official who redistributed the plan seven months after the fact to make it look as though it was an open issue to cover my ass because I got "found out". I am not an elected official who comes to this web site and lies to everyone and then disappears and does everything on the sly once the plot is exposed. Sorry Dick, you don't know the definition of ethics.

[Mattberg]

Just so the rest of SEDIV knows. Barry Hair is going to destroy SARRC and the SEDIV if he is allowed to continue this crusade. Florida and North Carolina will survive and thrive without the rest of SEDIV if it comes to it. The fact that this proposal has gone so far is testament to the plitical system failure we created. The fact that a region with two drivers has as much influence as a region with over 1000 is a joke. It's socialism pure and simple.

Who gets hurt in all of this? Atlanta. Be prepared Atlanta because a split will diminish your 18% a lot further because Florida racers that come to Atlanta now will be far less likely to do so. Buccaneer? Start looking for a mortgage company to get a second or third on that strip of sandpaper up there in Savanah because if we split you'll see more races go up on the Florida schedule and they'll be at places like Sebring, Daytona, Moroso and Homestead. Compete with that. If you support Barry Hair and Alabama you are supporting destruction of everything "racing" within 300 miles of Atlanta so that ONE man and his 25 racers and 23 workers can make money of of other regions' resources.

[JeffYoung]

Repost from a thread on General Discussions (that got locked because of some bad boy behavior). I think this answers most of the "questions" Matt raises, although I am sure it will fail to satisfy the black helicopter crowd.

One additional comment. Every non-SCCA person I bring to a race says the same thing -- who puts this on and what do they get paid? When I tell them that people stand in the sun, rain, cold, and wind for 10 hours so we can race FOR FREE, the reaction is always the same: are you kidding me? I know we all say "Thanks Workers" etc. but I do think we fail to realize the sheer magnitude of what does on here. An entirely volunteer organization, with hundreds of volunteers per division, spend most of their free time doing nothing other than making sure we, the drivers, get to race.

That's what makes the crap above so hard to stomach.

Any event, on to the explanation for all of this:

**********

I have kept silent through all this long tirade. But I was rather annoyed by Matt's accusations and bad-mouthing of Barry Hair, so it is time for me to correct some of Matt's statements.

First though, I want to say that in all the times I have met Barry Hair, he has never done anything than try to put forward the best interests of Alabama region. He has never voted on any motion without getting feedback from his members. Barry also has constructively improved the process whereby everything that goes on in S E Div is actually made more public, by having items for the Annual Meeting agenda be provided in advance of Jekyll and getting minutes published sooner. Take note of that for later. I honestly believe that Alabama members are fortunate to have Barry H. as their R.E. and his silence in the face of Matt's tirade speeks volumes for his integrity.

To save you reading to the bottom of this to find out who it is from, I am the R.E for Central Carolinas Region.

At the 2005 mid-year meeting in Atlanta, all the R.E.'s and other officials in attendance were talking about the problems that regions have, such as getting and keeping workers, not over-stressing officials and workers with too many events, the increasing costs of putting on races, the challenge of NASA and how difficult it is for a non-racing region to get a good date on the racing calendar. Also that the R.E.'s rarely have the time at our two meetings of the year (Atlanta and Jekyll) to really discuss things and to talk about the future of racing

I made the comment that we should sit down with a bottle of good malt whisky and chat about things. All the R.E.'s thought that was a good idea, though there was some request for wine or vodka as an alternative. Based on that, I said I would arrange such a get-together for the Friday before Jekyll. We decided that just the R.E.'s would get together, because we were not going to make any specific action items. The intent was/is that we discuss a variety of issue in a relaxed manner. Hopefully we will come up with some great suggestions and ideas. If we do, those will become proposals for a following S.E. Division meeting and they WILL BE publicly aired beforehand and everyone can comment on them.

It was about at this point that Toni Creighton stood up (Toni was sitting behind me) and got on her cellphone to Jim Creighton and said (not quite verbatim) "Guess what. The R.E.'s have just decided to have a secret meeting to decide on the future of SARRC". I am not sure why Toni took this viewpoint, because none of the R.E.'s had it.

The so-called proposal that Matt and Toni have referred to was in fact just a discussion document of one possible idea. A very important fact is that it is NOT on the agenda for R.E.'s to vote on at Jekyll. If it did "appear" on the agenda, and thanks to Barry, that fact would now be made public well before the meeting, I for one R.E. would state that the vote needs to be delayed to allow for public discussion.

If you all think it is a bad idea for your elected R.E's to chat about all the various issues, challenges and opportunities facing S.E. Division then you should elect alternatives.

If you think that a constructive blue-sky brainstorming meeting can occur amongst 150 people on Saturday at Jekyll, then go for it.


Matt said "So who wants to hear what Barry did? Friggin scumbag set up the "secret meeting" at a different hotel".

This is not true.

I set up the meeting. I set it up at a different hotel because I was having problems (many places in Jekyll are closed in Jan) reserving a room where we could chat informally and relaxed. The intent was to avoid unnecessary interruptions and actually try to enjoy the discussions.

Matt also said "So here's what the scumbags did...
They didn't want any of us drivers to know what they were doing so they moved their meeting to a different hotel across town. You didn't think I'd figure it out Barry? You are one stupid hick. I made three phone calls and found you out"

Well Matt, careful who you are calling stupid (and scumbags).

Matt also made the statement about it being on the "Alabama nickel". That is also wrong (Noticing a pattern here).

It is on my "nickel". Actually my American Express card. It is NOT on CCR's 'nickel' either. I have personally layed out for this. At times recently I have been wondering why!

As it is my personal social evening for something I suggested, I'll state that I have NO problem calling the police if someone tries to barge in on my gathering.
I certainly have the liberty and right to invite who I want. There will be some non-R.E people in attendance. Let me also clearly state that NO VOTES will be taken at this meeting. It's not an offical S.E. Division meeting so we can't and we never intended to.

I'm not staying at the convention hotel either. I have stayed there in the past. I got tired of the cold rooms, the lights going out, the worn out carpeting and bedding. Why it matters where any of us stay I have no idea. Just something else Matt can gripe at I guess.

Here's some other items to consider.
The elected R.E.'s of all regions are the Board of Directors of the S.E. Division and have the responsibility to manage the affairs of the Region. Taking the time to fully discuss current matters seems a very appropriate action.

I don't think any of the R.E.'s are so stupid to think that they can "mandate" where racers will have to drive to race. We're all VERY aware of market forces.

I am very confident that all R.E.'s would make sure that any proposal, suggestion, plan or change to SARRC is fully discussed with members, made public, reviewed and would not be voted on before Atlanta 2006 mid-year meeting at the Earliest.

The reason that R.E.'s have not been continually responsing to this thread is because the whole thing is based on serious misrepresentation. It should not be necessary for us to spend time refuting things which are inaccurate at their base.

That said, I am happy that here has been so much interest and discussion about racing and the SARRC series in this thread. I just wish it hadn't been undertaken in the manner it was.

Matt may state that he has all this 'evidence' and I'm sure he has a copy of the 'proposal' (actually a discssion document), but there's no truth to the basic premise that at Jekyll the R.E.'s will vote on a limitation to SARRC races by regions.

I don't fully understand Toni's issues with the R.E.'s getting together alone to discuss racing matters. I am sure I'll hear more on that at Jekyll. Certainly Toni's posts about people keeping involed in their regions affairs are very valid. I wish that CCR had more involvement from all its racers.

MATT. You owe Barry Hair a public apology. You have made rude and disrepectful comments about him that were completely untrue.

Any further issues you have with my social evening on Friday, you can take up with me. And no, you're not invited.

Sincerely,
Martin Bartlett.
Regional Executive
Central Carolinas Region.

[Mattberg]

The reason that R.E.'s have not been continually responsing to this thread is because the whole thing is based on serious misrepresentation. It should not be necessary for us to spend time refuting things which are inaccurate at their base.

That is the BIGGEST LIE in the world. Martin you are as big a liar as Barry. You know as well as I do you guys are trying to push this and every time you get caught in a lie you backtrack and go into hiding. It's embarassing to watch. I found out that this plan went on the agenda for the Friday meeting and only certain people were informed. Those with votes you thought would support it. Stop lying to everybody. Last, if you get ONE CENT of reimbursement for that hotel room and meeting room I will make sure that you are brought up on charges or at least sanctioned by the club. Just a warning. 501C guy, your books better be open and you better not have a receipt in there.

[Catch22]

My pants party went so well I'm having another one.
Matt's not invited, and my books will be closed.

Hey Matt, I will give you credit for one thing... Consistency.
Thats a fine job you're doing. Keep it up baby!!!

BTW - If you ever threaten me or call me names like you have done to others here, I will find you. You won't be happy.
I say this to point out how lucky you are that someone hasn't already handed you your own balls. Keep taking shots like that and one day you'll take the wrong shot at the wrong person.
I suggest that Butch guy. He's kind of shady. Call him a few names. Make a few threats to him.
Go ahead. That'd be fun.

[Mattberg]

Chris,

You're an affront to racers everywhere. You're supporting officials that have consistently lied over and over again in an effort to hurt racing and racers for the benefit of 25 racers and one egotistical man in one region. Go back to your useless "garage" thread and leave us alone to figure out what to do with our region.

BTW you said you're an autocrosser now so why do you even care? Butt buddy with Barry?

[Mattberg]

One other thing Chris is that if Barry's plan works out it destroys racing in Georgia. Remember that. Because Florida will go their own way and there will be new dates that willcompete with the 18% of SEDIV racing Georgia now gets. You think it was tough gettin FL workers and drivers up there now? Wait till after this. We'll add another national and start our own series. No one will have to leave the state with more tracks than all the other regions put together.

BTW, more FL drivers go to Atlanta than GA drivers come to FL so you can take your argument and shove it. You're the one who losses in this whole deal.

[charrbq]

I question my reasoning when I come to this and other threads dominated by this "Mattberg" clown's rantings. His cursings, threats, character assasinations, biased opinions, claims of documents and witnesses, the whole mess. I just really don't know what goes on in the mind of such a person. I'm sure Freud could've gotten just as easily sidetracked with the chest pounding and screams from this poor, lonely person in search of an audience and attention.

I have never seen such twisted logic and half truths. Most disturbed people eventually run out of steam, but he seems to be fueled by attempts to reason and explain.

I've been RE of my former region and fought the different ego factions of the group that comes with the territory. It was taxing and took way too much time from my home life and my job...both suffered as I put more effort into the guidance of the region and its success. After tiring of the office, I was nominated for Chairman of the Board. After one meeting with the new board and seeing the kind of crap coming from the mouths of foolish people unlike Mattberg, I withdrew my nomination and resigned from the board. I couldn't handle that kind of personal sacrifice and personal attacts anymore.

I volunteered for the work and was rewarded by my fellow members with their respect by asking me to be one of their elected leaders. I was then acosted and attacked by other elected officials and their puppets. Some people can take that sort of thing and go on with the agenda...most can't. Had I been physically and "verbally" threatened like what I've read from Mattberg's poisoned keyboard, I would've resigned from the club. No one needs or deserves that.

To think that a member of one region would become so upset at an official of another region as to level these attacks at him is unbelievable. I know that the acts of one region can effect the division as a whole, but the leaders of all the other regions have a say, or at least an opportunity to have a say in what happens in their division. That is unless they have all signed their voting proxy to Mattberg.

I'm glad there are people who point out things to us all that just aren't right. There are things that go on in our club that may not be in our best interest, and we need to at least know about them before they happen. Acting on them is our decision, not someone elses. But no one deserves the kind of punishment that Mattberg levels at the RE of another region or the officer of any region or the member of any region or anyone who posts on this forum that might even remotely disagree with him.

The only person I can identify that used these kind of tactics against anyone was Adolf Hitler against the Jews.

[charrbq]

Matt,
My name is Chris. If you took the time to open your eyes, you would see my name at the bottom of my posts. My parents gave it to me, and I'm proud of it. I sign all my posts with it, as I'm not afraid to be known by my real name. The guy you keep calling Chris is Scott. Had you taken the time to look, you would've read that when he pointed it out to you before. I don't mind you attacking me, and I'm sure Scott isn't afraid of your typewriter either. Scott is a good friend who I enjoy racing and bench racing with. If you differ with his opinion, I'm sure he can handle it as can I. Just take the time to get your name and your facts straight. Not doing so only proves incompetence.

[Butch Kummer]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 16 2006, 09:29 AM
Alabama's RE and his friends have been doing exactly that to us for a couple of months now. He says there was no discussion of this plan and when we prove there was he says it was only a discussion of an "idea". He says there was no plan written and when we prove there was a written plan he says it was nothing. When we prove it was selectively distributed he redistributes it seven months after the fact and claims it was distributed. When we prove there is a secret meeting planned they get someone else to come here and call it a private "cocktail party". Then we find out yesterday afternoon that they have a SEDIV agenda in which this plan is included? In addition I find out that Barry is out lobbying the non-racing regions to back it? What am I supposed to think? He's assembling votes of these little non-racing regions because they have as much power in their single vote as any racing region. One region has two people!!!! This is a total manipulation of a broken system. It's not about Florida being greedy it's about Alabama being greedy. We just want to race and Barry doesn't want us to so he can make money and be a big man.

I have not lied or misrepresented anything for personal gain like those I've exposed here.

Matt, the reason no officials have responded here is because you choose not to believe anything that differs from your particular point of view. There are a NUMBER of inaccuracies in your post:

Barry Hair did NOT present the original proposal. It was verbally presented at the mid-year meeting by Fred Clark, a member of the Bucanneer Region. The "delayed" e-mail was sent out by Ted Michelbrink, not Barry. Ted thought he had sent it out just after the mid-year but found that it was never sent. Barry happened to be the first name on the list because he's the (duly elected) RE of the Alabama Region and the addresses appear alphabetically by region name.

Martin Bartlett finds out about the thread, explains the Friday night party and declares that should any action come from discussions at said social, they will be presented at the SEDIV meeting and no vote would be taken until the 2006 mid-year meeting. So you decide he's lying and/or Barry's pawn.

And have you (or anyone else) actually READ Fred's proposal? The key phrase is that the eight current racing regions START with one National, one Regional, one school and one "special event", then the remaining weekends are distributed via a lottery-type system. The current mileage and consecutive weekend restrictions would remain. This is one PROPOSAL for a way to open up weekends for regions that want to get on the calendar, but it does NOT set a maximum number of races per region or track, just how they'd get applied for. Because they're on the edges of the Division, Florida and North Carolina would get to keep all/most of their current weekends - the central regions (yes, Atlanta Region) would be hurt most by this. But then regardless of what you THINK is being discussed covertly, this proposal (should it ever reach the status of a motion) would be defeated.

What else have you misrepresented?

There NEVER was a proposal to limit racing in SEDIV to the eight regions that currently hold races, but then you've backed off from that particular windmill, haven't you?

Catch-22's name is not Chris, it's Scott.

I don't know if Barry (or anyone else) is out lobbying with the smaller regions or not. I also don't know if Jeff Gordon is gay or not, I only know that he's never hit on me.

I am certainly a racer, I will be attending the Friday night party and I will represent the views of racers throughout the division. I will also be representing workers and officials throughout the division as well, because I count myself among them as well.

And yes, I WOULD like you to physically threaten me...

Butch Kummer

[Mattberg]

Butch, reflecting back on our original conversation everyting is so reversed, First you siad there was no proposal, no you say there is but it was from Fred Clark. You said it was only discussion but then you say it was not sent to certain people by mistake and then resent 7 months later. You said this was never an agenda issue but now it is and at a closed meeting which you're invited to and not some others including as I understand, the area director. What's the deal? You said this thing has no chance but yet you're attending Barry's meeting and he's out lobbying everyone and anyone to back it.

As far as the physical threat issue that Scott started, I can only say that you're both idiots for resorting to that kind of talk.

[Butch Kummer]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 16 2006, 03:10 PM
As far as the physical threat issue that Scott started, I can only say that you're both idiots for resorting to that kind of talk.

As I recall, it was another idiot that talked about being 6'5" and 225 pounds when threatening Barry with a blanket party. Any idea who that might have been? Or is YOUR story going to change?

In our original discussion back in October (?), I said I'd never seen a written proposal. It was verbally presented by Fred Clark at the mid-year meeting and I was on the other side of the room. The first I saw the written proposal was in December via a forwarded e-mail to my RE from Ted Michelbrink, Buccaneer RE. Again, it's a PROPOSAL meant to initiate discussion about a problem in SEDIV, not a motion requesting action!

And if you'll go back to my post that started this thread, you note that I said I was somewhat uncomfortable attending this private party but felt I needed to do so to adequately represent the region that elected me. Rather than operate on hearsay and innuendo, as a duly elected official (who actually accepted a nomination and ran for the office) I'll attend the meeting and make any decisions based on what I hear there and during the meetings on Saturday and Sunday. I don't know who else has been invited, it's not my party.

The good news is this might finally die after this weekend, but then you'll certainly find another topic to misrepresent.

I'm done here...

[Catch22]

OK, I'm going to quit making fun of Matt. I've decided that he must actually be mentally disturbed and I don't like picking on the disabled. Thats just wrong.

"Blanket parties"
"Scumbags"
"idiots"
etc etc etc

Matt, you do realize you type this stuff. Right?

Anyway, I think you need to give that Butch guy a blanket party.
When you see him at Jekyll, make sure you have a blanket in your hand, and call him names. Run right up to him with your blanket and call him an idiot scumbag!

And PLEASE... Somebody have a video camera rolling.

SCOTT, who's name is SCOTT and has already pointed that out to MATT at least once.

[Mattberg]

That's fair Butch. I know a bunch of folks didn't get the original memo and I'm sure you're one of them. It was sent out to most as a cover your ass memo after we exposed it and after they said it didn't exist. Just recognize that, please. They also said this meeting was an informal party and it's not. It has a SEDIV agenda and many are not invited. They said it wasn't two weeks ago. That's a big problem. After all, as I've said, I think this hurts Atlanta region more than any others and find it hard to believe you could ever see any merit in it.

Scott, sorry about the name mix up. Is it that big a deal? I get called lots of other names... But why don't you go autocrossing as you said you were going to do and leave us to our racing business? Do you want racers to lose races close to home so Barry Hair can make money? Barry is pushing his plan because we gave him a new plan that is a lot more fair and he doesn't like it because he's not the boss. This meeting is a way of fast tracking his idea and ignoring the SARRC adminstrator's better plan. He's just out of control and on a crusade to be a big fish in a small pond. Why can you not see that? Wiregrass Region has two friggin' people and they get the same vote as CFR! He's using that to his advantage and turning this into a losing battle for SEDIV. Without Florida and North Carolina SEDIV is Atlanta only which is 18% of the division. Barry is forcing that possibility thinking it won't happen. I guarantee you it will if he wins this vote which it looks like he will. It will be the end of SARRC and the end of SEDIV which is now the best and strongest division in the country.

[Russ Myers]

Remember folks, this is an old liberal debating trick. He who screams the loudest (and most often) wins. Facts should never get in the way. When presented with facts, blustering and name calling will elevate your position to that of above your foe. Threats of physical violence carry a lot of weight, because everyone will know how really, really serious you are. And this above all, there is no room in your mind for change. To even think you might need to re-evaluate your position shows weakness, and this will not be tolerated.

Matthew is very right about what will happen if the powers that be are allowed to talk to each other. Mass hysteria will ensue, the earth will tremble, cats and dogs will be living together, etc., etc., etc. Hell, the whole of the SCCA may well colapse and we will all have to race with NASA, or worse yet, go roundy-pounding(I'd like to see threats of violence delivered there, you'd get a camshaft upside yo' haid). The best thing that could happen is the SCCA dies a horrible death over this. Then I could use all the money I spend on racing for other persuits, like RETIREMENT.

Russ, who would like to see "Chicken Little" southern fried, with a side of rice and gravy!!!

Post thought: Folks, the SCCA has been around for a long time. our regions have been a round a while, too. I imagine that "this, too, shall pass".

[JeffYoung]

Russ, tend to agree with most of that, but it's an old conservative debating trick too. In fact, it is an old HUMAN debating trick. The list of loudmouth conservatives and liberals is infinitely long.......

[Russ Myers]

Uh, so true, so true.

Russ