Jekyll Secret Meeting

[Catch22]

No.

SOME people need to learn that the people they are publicly trashing today are the people that may be saving their lives tomorrow.

Mr. Mattberg is a racer
Mr. Barry Hair is a corner worker
Mr. Mattberg may need Mr. Barry Hair to pull his ass out of a burning car some day.
Mr. Mattberg apparently has never stopped to think about that.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Catch22@Jan 24 2006, 09:55 AM
No.

SOME people need to learn that the people they are publicly trashing today are the people that may be saving their lives tomorrow.

Mr. Mattberg is a racer
Mr. Barry Hair is a corner worker
Mr. Mattberg may need Mr. Barry Hair to pull his ass out of a burning car some day.
Mr. Mattberg apparently has never stopped to think about that.

[snapback]71870[/snapback]

Scott,

I understand all of that, and I totally agree w/ you. But to wish that someone crashes their car during an event is totally over the top. I don't care how much of a jackass you think Matt, or anyone else is, to wish that on them is just too much. You really owe Matt, and the rest of the readers of this board, an apology for that comment.

[Catch22]

I'll make a deal with you.

I'll apologize for that comment shortly after Matt apologizes for publicly dragging people and regions through the mud for no good damned reason other than the crazy ones in his head.

I'm pretty positive I won't have to pay up on that deal.

[Doc Bro]

It's not fair......mommy he keeps hitting me.......are we there yet????


Has anyone had enogh yet?.....just put it to bed already!!!

R

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Catch22@Jan 24 2006, 11:23 AM
I'll make a deal with you.

I'll apologize for that comment shortly after Matt apologizes for publicly dragging people and regions through the mud for no good damned reason other than the crazy ones in his head.

I'm pretty positive I won't have to pay up on that deal.

[snapback]71897[/snapback]

That's really too bad Scott. Why would you operate on the same level as someone that you don't respect?

[Catch22]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Jan 24 2006, 03:51 PM
That's really too bad Scott. Why would you operate on the same level as someone that you don't respect?

[snapback]71931[/snapback]

Because I see it a bit differently than you do.
Some people bring out the worst in all of us. I'm not ashamed of it and I don't regret it.

But since absolutely NOTHING happened at the meeting, and not only is the SEDIV going to live to see another day, but regions are actually working together to host events... And Matt has apparently disappeared...
I suppose someone can go ahead and delete this thread now.

Or leave it.
It might be useful to dig it back up the next time some looney pulls their best Chicken Little impersonation.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Catch22@Jan 24 2006, 01:06 PM

But since absolutely NOTHING happened at the meeting,

[snapback]71933[/snapback]

Ever give any thought to how it may have come out if not exposed? I don't agree with Matt's actions anymore than I would agree that his actions allow anyone to act like people have in response. You all need to look at the message a little more. Racing is getting more and more expensive and part of it caused by poor management of our resources...I do not blame that on volunteer's, I blame it on everyone of us for being too lazy to help and or pay attention to it. So while Matt may truely be a A-hole I think he has some valid issues at times. too bad he can't get them out in a more constructive manner.

[its66]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Jan 24 2006, 04:17 PM
Ever give any thought to how it may have come out if not exposed? I don't agree with Matt's actions anymore than I would agree that his actions allow anyone to act like people have in response. You all need to look at the message a little more. Racing is getting more and more expensive and part of it caused by poor management of our resources...I do not blame that on volunteer's, I blame it on everyone of us for being too lazy to help and or pay attention to it. So while Matt may truely be a A-hole I think he has some valid issues at times. too bad he can't get them out in a more constructive manner.

[snapback]71934[/snapback]

Very insightful

[Butch Kummer]

While Matt's "campaign" may have inspired additional focus, I am convinced the outcome would have been the same regardless. The Fred Clark "proposal" floated at the SEDIV Mid-Year meeting was, from the start, just an idea to spark conversation about possible solutions to a problem encountered by multiple regions. Fred was also at Friday night's meeting and apologized to all for having initiated the furor by his poor choice of words ("proposal" vs. "idea"). Add in the fact that his "idea" was misunderstood by almost all that read it and the situation got even worse.

Where I lost it was because Matt (and his invisible sources) refused to accept that there was NO proposal to be voted upon and did not allow for the possibility that PERHAPS they may have misunderstood. Throw in his bullying rhetoric, constant ridicule of volunteers and threats of physical abuse topped off by his apparent disregard (or lack of comprehension) of his own RE's January newsletter article, and I'd finally had enough.

The reason Atlanta Region is working with surrounding regions to conduct the Labor Day events in Nashville is because it's the right thing to do. Not every region can suddenly acquire 2000 members and the infrastructure to host racing events even if the DO have a facility in the backyard. But Alabama, Chattanooga, TVR and Tennessee have expressed an interest in building interest in racing among their membership while we "control" the Labor Day dates and need their help to put on an event - I believe that's the definition of a win-win situation. We had already looked into the possibility of running at Nashville (I ran Chattanooga's Time Trial there last October primarily to see if the facility will work for road racing - it will) and when the Labor Day dates became available last Monday we jumped at the chance. Matt's tirade(s) had absolutely nothing to do with our regions working together to provide a better program for all SCCA racers.

Yes, we all need to be aware of what's going on that affects our sport. Lord knows there are enough personality differences/clashes that can sometimes appear to inhibit progress, but we also need to have respect for those who volunteer their time and energies to help make it all happen. Everyone won't be happy with every decision that's made, but at least try to understand WHY the decision was made the way it was.

Now that I've found this board I'll use it to improve Atlanta Region's racing program. We've already tossed around ideas for the 2006 Pro-IT series and I think it'll be better because of the changes we've made. I also became aware of a concern about running our ECR's first thing Sunday morning, so we'll be looking at that for July (I'll post a separate thread for that).

As far as Mr. Weisberg, I now know what he is and will react accordingly in the future. If he's indeed joined the Stewards program as rumored (yet to be confirmed), then perhaps he'll gain a better understanding as to how much work actually goes into making a race weekend happen and display a bit more respect for those who work together so (us) racers can play. Then again, maybe he won't. Doesn't matter either way...

Butch K[r]ummer

[specialtyautomo]

OUTSTANDING Butch. Those are the kind of things that need to happen. We can never have too much information.


Thanks Bobby Bitterman

[Catch22]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Jan 24 2006, 04:17 PM
Ever give any thought to how it may have come out if not exposed?

[snapback]71934[/snapback]

No.
None at all.
Zero.

Why?
Because when I asked those who know (REs, stewarts, etc.) what the deal was, they all said exactly what Butch noted above. This is not new insight, its info thats been public for months.
Yet... Matt kept hammering.
The more people tried to explain to him that he was railing against nothing, the louder he got. He called people names, made threats, and made disparaging remarks about regions and their leadership.
He did all of this FOR NOTHING!

It was nothing. It never was anything.
Butch's post above sheds no light that hasn't already been shed, long ago.

So please don't lend any credit to Matt at all. He helped nothing, he exposed nothing, he changed nothing. Don't encourage him to ever behave this way again.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Catch22@Jan 24 2006, 03:33 PM
No.
None at all.
Zero.

Why?
Because when I asked those who know (REs, stewarts, etc.) what the deal was, they all said exactly what Butch noted above. This is not new insight, its info thats been public for months.
Yet... Matt kept hammering.
The more people tried to explain to him that he was railing against nothing, the louder he got. He called people names, made threats, and made disparaging remarks about regions and their leadership.
He did all of this FOR NOTHING!

It was nothing. It never was anything.
Butch's post above sheds no light that hasn't already been shed, long ago.

So please don't lend any credit to Matt at all. He helped nothing, he exposed nothing, he changed nothing. Don't encourage him to ever behave this way again.

[snapback]71958[/snapback]

Well I guess we will agree to disagree cause you looked at one side of the issue and were just as satisfied nothing was going on. I believe some other credible people besides Matt posted on this issue also stating that there were problems. As someone that gets branded a trouble maker more than he should I can tell you that things are not always as rosey as spome would have you believe and that even in a club such as this some folks are not beyond pushing their own agenda. I have been amember of many clubs in all my years and have seen power struggles in about all of them. I have also seen dishonesty and and flat out theft because members were to lazy to pay attention until it was to late. I don't offer any of this to lend credibilty to Matt, I offer so you all might just take a moment and think before you shoot that things like this have happened in the past and they can just as easy happen again if your not paying attention. Matt has uncovered bad stuff before and likely will again. My only hope is that one day he will learn how to present it without causing such a stir.

[Catch22]

I hear what you are saying.

But here's my point...
People that are typically not known to be "self serving agenda pushers" have also posted over the past couple of months that this whole thing is a red herring. I've talked to others in person (you know, we can still do such things, slinging poop on the web is now the preferred method of communication, but I'm pretty sure folks that can afford race cars and the internet still have phones ), and consistently heard the same thing...
"Its a non-issue."

I choose to listen to those people. People like Matt choose to keep on slinging the fecal mud, regardless of what they see or hear and regardless of who says it.

Multiple REs
His OWN RE...
All basically said "Look, this idea was brought up but nothing is going to happen."
It was a non-issue before.
Its a non-issue now.
It was a non-issue all along.

Nothing Matt did or said changed a damned thing.

The only thing Matt managed to do is slander. Thats all.
If that was his goal, well here is his trophy for a job well done:

[wbp]

Joe, if you knew Barry Hair personally, as so many of us here do, you would know how hard he works for SCCA racing. (He estimates 300 days per year handling some SCCA chore.) Then you would understand how we knew from the start that there was nothing to the accusations. Much smoke, but no fire.
As one who knows most of the Regional Execs. in the SEDIV (they are directors of SEDIV, Inc.) I had a high level of confidence that no ill advised idea would go far with them. Smart, hard working, dedicated people.

[Drew Aldred]

I'm glad this all got worked out in the end, but also remember alot of this got rolling when the SEDIV leaders denied that any such "idea, proposal, or spitballing" even existed. The truth about this idea would have sprayed alot of disenfectant on the whole issue.

I agree with Joe, you may not like Matt's approach but then don't take his word for what's happening either. Ask the people in charge and find out for yourself.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by wbp@Jan 24 2006, 05:44 PM
Joe, if you knew Barry Hair personally, as so many of us here do, you would know how hard he works for SCCA racing. (He estimates 300 days per year handling some SCCA chore.) Then you would understand how we knew from the start that there was nothing to the accusations. Much smoke, but no fire.
As one who knows most of the Regional Execs. in the SEDIV (they are directors of SEDIV, Inc.) I had a high level of confidence that no ill advised idea would go far with them. Smart, hard working, dedicated people.

[snapback]71972[/snapback]

Bill, I get what your saying but understand I have seen good people do wrong things before. That statement incudes Matt. am a complete outsider here but looking in I still believe there are several sides to this story and that the exposure itself was likely a good thing. The method of exposure and the counter attack was just wrong... on all sides.

[charrbq]

I find it interesting that this thread started in General Discussions, where it was begged that it be moved to this area repeatedly. After continued assaults, threats, and profanity by several of us, it was finally shut down only to resurface with almost all of the viciousness, name calling and accusations.

Several of us have really shown our asses.

Now that the forum has come full circle, several of us are continuing with the assaults of various intensity on one another. But the instigator of the screaming and chest pounding hasn't been heard from since before last weekend.

Did he expose a conspiracy, as he proclaimed, or did he manage to reduce us to his level.

[Catch22]

I disagree with your assessment Chris.

Nobody is fighting or name calling now. What we are doing is discussing what happened, why, and should it have ever happened in the first place.

Thats good stuff. Its valuable and its how we learn and get things done.

As far as showing our asses, I'm fine with showing mine. But I never do it until someone else shows theirs first.
Does that make it "right" or "OK?" I dunno. I guess that depends on who you ask.
But I'm perfectly comfortable with everything I've typed on this matter. No regrets at all.
I'm one of those mean monkeys that will pick up your poo and sling it right back at you.

"The growth of knowledge depends entirely upon disagreement." - Karl Popper, Philosopher.

[Mattberg]

A poop throwing monkey. Good description.

[Catch22]

Excellent.
Matt's back.

If you are finished with Barry, maybe you can publicly slander me now for no good damned reason. I mean, you've already demonstrated that you are good at it.
Everyone is good at something... Right?