head and neck restraint required

[mlytle]

bmwcca just announced tonight that for bmw club racing,
"Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com"

marshall

[lateapex911]

Well, that SUCKS! Chicken $#@$.............

I PRAY and HOPE the SCCA has more balls...

[dj10]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 15 2005, 11:07 PM
bmwcca just announced tonight that for bmw club racing,
"Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com"

marshall

[snapback]68423[/snapback]

? Marshall, didn't that guy who died @ the BMW club race in the NE have a hans on?
dj

[JamesB]

Are you referring to the driver that died not of the crash but of medical condition? I believe yes, he did have a H&N on.

[dj10]

Originally posted by JamesB@Dec 16 2005, 11:37 AM
Are you referring to the driver that died not of the crash but of medical condition? I believe yes, he did have a H&N on.

[snapback]68478[/snapback]

I didn't hear that he died of a med condition. FMI, what did he die of?
Making everyone in a club buy a $800.00 item X how many members? Someone is making a killing! No pun intented. I don't believe that these should be manditory!
dj10

[JamesB]

yeah, making it mandatory does give someone a killing, I would say all 3 listed will benefit. I need to find the board where someone posted up an artical with information in it. its eluding me at this time and well work is beconing me a lot this week.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 16 2005, 04:26 PM
? Marshall, didn't that guy who died @ the BMW club race in the NE have a hans on?
dj

[snapback]68476[/snapback]

everything i saw on the incident clearly said he did NOT have any h&n restraint on.

and since there was apparently no autopsy, the cause of death was not determined, so it is not known if a medical condition was an issue either. an "official" report has yet to be released.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 16 2005, 04:51 PM
I didn't hear that he died of a med condition. FMI, what did he die of?
Making everyone in a club buy a $800.00 item X how many members? Someone is making a killing! No pun intented. I don't believe that these should be manditory!
dj10

[snapback]68481[/snapback]

not all of them are $800, and if more sanctioning bodies required them, then the volume would go up and cost would come down.

maybe i am biased, as i have been using a hans for two years, but i think this is a great move and scca should follow. most all pro series alread do, and i think nasa has some sort of requirement too. scca is behind the power curve on this one.

[pgipson]

i think nasa has some sort of requirement too.

Actually NASA doesn't have a requirement (as of 3 days ago) although they have indicated an SFI approved device may be required beginning 1 July 06. I don't know that any other marque clubs have instituted a requirement yet.

scca is behind the power curve on this one

Not sure I agree with that statement. Requiring the SFI approval leaves out a number of marketed products that are already in use by drivers. Such an action may actually leave a sanctioning organization open to more criticisim and potential liability. A driver that prefers the original Hutchens or the Wright or ISSAC or G-Force is now prevented from using those systems.

It might be that the time isn't right to start mandating additional safety equipment for club racers.

[dj10]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 16 2005, 12:39 PM
not all of them are $800, and if more sanctioning bodies required them, then the volume would go up and cost would come down.

maybe i am biased, as i have been using a hans for two years, but i think this is a great move and scca should follow. most all pro series alread do, and i think nasa has some sort of requirement too. scca is behind the power curve on this one.

[snapback]68491[/snapback]

For me I can't stand the thought of something hindering my head movement! Something like claustrophobia I guess? To me it's like pro choice, it's my life and my body, let me choose. Let's all put on 5mm restrictor plates and just go 40mph. . Next they will be telling us we have to wear a jock strap and a cup!

[OG Racing]

Deleted

[JamesB]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 16 2005, 01:34 PM
everything i saw on the incident clearly said he did NOT have any h&n restraint on.

and since there was apparently no autopsy, the cause of death was not determined, so it is not known if a medical condition was an issue either. an "official" report has yet to be released.

[snapback]68490[/snapback]

I found the thread, I had this and another incident confused. your right, the NHIS incident has no mention of a H&N in any of the articals, threads, or recounts from drivers at the event. Its been a crazy year with fatal incidents, sadly enough for me to get my facts crossed.

As for SFI or not, I don't know how I feel. I think the BMWCCA fear is that joe racer to design his own rather then buy a proven design and in the end prevented nothing in the case of an incident or impeded the driver when it should not have. I consider that BMWCCA required SFI as a CYA of its own.

[latebrake]

Originally posted by JamesB@Dec 16 2005, 02:26 PM
I found the thread, I had this and another incident confused. your right, the NHIS incident has no mention of a H&N in any of the articals, threads, or recounts from drivers at the event. Its been a crazy year with fatal incidents, sadly enough for me to get my facts crossed.

As for SFI or not, I don't know how I feel. I think the BMWCCA fear is that joe racer to design his own rather then buy a proven design and in the end prevented nothing in the case of an incident or impeded the driver when it should not have. I consider that BMWCCA required SFI as a CYA of its own.

[snapback]68495[/snapback]

NASA CCR 29.1.2. Has a list of H&N required by mid season 06. No regard to SFI approval. Yet..
Lawrence

[Racerlinn]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 15 2005, 10:07 PM
bmwcca just announced tonight that for bmw club racing,
"Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com"

marshall

[snapback]68423[/snapback]

"Meeting" the SFI 38.1 standard and "Approved" (which implys the "stamp of excellence" of SFI) are two different things. Do they really used the word "approved"? I await Mr. Baker's thoughts on this.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 16 2005, 11:26 AM
? Marshall, didn't that guy who died @ the BMW club race in the NE have a hans on?

[snapback]68476[/snapback]

Directly from BMWCCA's website: http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/index.htm

It is with the deepest sadness that we announce the passing of BMW CCA member and club racer David MacPherson, following an incident on Friday, October 28, 2005 during a BMW CCA club race at New Hampshire International Speedway.

After examining the incident scene and numerous in-car videos, it appeared that this was a single-car, single-driver incident. During the race, following a restart after a full-course yellow, Car #124 took an unusually low line next to the pit wall going into Turn 1 at New Hampshire International Speedway. It then proceeded across the track, impacting the outside wall, which was equipped with a Safer barrier. After the initial impact, Car #124 continued along the wall until it stopped. Emergency service personnel and race and track officials responded to the site immediately. After extraction from the car, Dave was taken immediately to hospital. He was not wearing a head and neck restraint at the time of the incident. We have no additional or definitive medical information. Medical information is reserved for Dave's family and we request that their privacy be respected.

Hopefully this will end the speculation and hearsay about this incident.

[dj10]

I'm all for saftey I just don't like anyone telling me I have to hang a $800.00 something around my neck, after I have gone through all the trouble of fire suits, roll cages that would pass pro standards, SFI seat & fire system.
Next they will make fire systems & fuel cells mandatory, even in IT, and no more open face helmets, you will have to use ear protection and protective eye wear. Hell, your SCCA regions have big bank accounts, let them buy you the Hans.

Leave it to the indivudal drivers! Let me sign a waiver cause I don't want one.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 16 2005, 11:38 PM
I'm all for saftey I just don't like anyone telling me I have to hang a $800.00 something around my neck, after I have gone through all the trouble of fire suits, roll cages that would pass pro standards, SFI seat & fire system.
Next they will make fire systems & fuel cells mandatory, even in IT, and no more open face helmets, you will have to use ear protection and protective eye wear. Hell, your SCCA regions have big bank accounts, let them buy you the Hans.

Leave it to the indivudal drivers! Let me sign a waiver cause I don't want one.

[snapback]68525[/snapback]

hi dj!

hmmm, let's see..
hans...check
fire system...check
closed face helmet....check
hearing protection...check
eye protection....check
fuel cell.....ooops, my scca its car is missing one of the dreaded safety features!

on your fear of your head being restricted with a hans for normal use...it isn't. after one session of use, i didn't even notice it anymore...

marshall

[dj10]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 16 2005, 06:57 PM
hi dj!

hmmm, let's see..
hans...check NOT MANDITORY
fire system...check NOT MANDITORY
closed face helmet....check NOT MANDITORY, OPEN FACE ALLOWABLE
hearing protection...check NOT MANDITORY
eye protection....check NOT MANDITORY
fuel cell.....ooops, my scca its car is missing one of the dreaded safety features! ONLY ANOTHER $500 + INSTALLATION AND IT CAN BE YOURS.

on your fear of your head being restricted with a hans for normal use...it isn't. after one session of use, i didn't even notice it anymore...

marshall

[snapback]68528[/snapback]

marshall, imagine if you didn't have or want any of these and someone told you you have to use the open face helmet. The hans is just a personal choice and it should be mine to make.

On another subject, please tell the other 2 wise men (Matt & Dave) I said Happy Holidays to all of you.
Did marrs make mid ohio a event for 06?

[lateapex911]

It is indeed a CYA, and it's very sad. There are plenty of ways that common sense could be injected, but in the end, a freaken lawyer won the day.

Sadly, it is more about liability than true safety, at least it is for the BMWCCA.....

And the SFI thing is an absolute sham..a joke.. a racket even.

All hiding behind the veil of "public good" and "safety".

Lame decision...gutless.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 17 2005, 12:32 AM
marshall, imagine if you didn't have or want any of these and someone told you you have to use the open face helmet. The hans is just a personal choice and it should be mine to make.

On another subject, please tell the other 2 wise men (Matt & Dave) I said Happy Holidays to all of you.
Did marrs make mid ohio a event for 06?

[snapback]68531[/snapback]

yo dj!
i confess, i was riding a yamaha rice rocket back in the early 80's with a full face helmet, leathers, boots and gloves in a state where helmets weren't required. guess i am one of the oddballs who partakes in risky sports, but checks all the safety boxes doing it....

will pass on greetings to matt and dave!
we wanted to make mid-o a marrs event, but the track gave away the aug wor games date to nasa. the new date for the wor games doesn't work with the marrs sked, so we are going back to the glenn in july.

marshall