For Your Viewing Pleasure

[gsbaker]

Below is a link to crash test videos from the Delphi Safety Systems Test Center in Vandalia, Ohio. The test protocol is SFI Specification 38.1 (30 degree offset). The tests are identical except for the head and neck restraint used.

This video is in MPEG format. Please right click and "save as". Right click here.

Feel free to hand this out to family and friends. It makes a great stocking stuffer.

Happy Holidays!

[tderonne]

Submitted for our review without any further information?

Is that an Impact 7 point harness? 6?


Edit:
And isn't the HANS already 38.1 certified?

[fairgentleman Z]

vid for R3?

[benracin]

Wow, the Hans pops out from under the belt. Belts were probably tight right?

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by tderonne@Dec 15 2005, 12:35 PM
Submitted for our review without any further information?

Sure. We just think they are fun to watch.

Is that an Impact 7 point harness? 6?

Impact 6 pt.

And isn't the HANS already 38.1 certified?

Sure is.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by fairgentleman Z@Dec 15 2005, 12:40 PM
vid for R3?

[snapback]68349[/snapback]

We don't have that one. You'll have to ask that company, sorry.

[Bill Miller]

Gregg,

Thanks for posting those. The way I read it, the two devices sure seem to perform similarly (although seeing the HANS pop out from under the belts is a bit unsettling). How will this impact (no pun intended) getting the ISSAC SFI 38.1 certified?

[Chris Wire]

Quick question.

I did as instructed and right-clicked and selectec "Save Target As" and then copied them to my hard drive. I did the HANS vid first, and when that was 30% loaded I selected the ISAAC vid and loaded that. The ISAAC vid caught the HANS vid at 48% loaded, and was fully installed while the HANS was still at 69%.

Now, am I supposed to read anything into that???

BTW, the video was VERY enlightening to those of us who are still on the fence and haven't yet decided on a type of restraint. I had heard of belt slippage issues on the HANS before, but this is the first visual proof I have seen.

Gregg, what effect do you think a sternum strap would have made? I have used those in the past and that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the HANS vid.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Chris Wire@Dec 15 2005, 02:40 PM
Quick question.

I did as instructed and right-clicked and selectec "Save Target As" and then copied them to my hard drive. I did the HANS vid first, and when that was 30% loaded I selected the ISAAC vid and loaded that. The ISAAC vid caught the HANS vid at 48% loaded, and was fully installed while the HANS was still at 69%.

Now, am I supposed to read anything into that???

Sure. It means that the Isaac makes you go faster.

BTW, the video was VERY enlightening to those of us who are still on the fence and haven't yet decided on a type of restraint. I had heard of belt slippage issues on the HANS before, but this is the first visual proof I have seen.

Gregg, what effect do you think a sternum strap would have made? I have used those in the past and that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the HANS vid.

[snapback]68372[/snapback]

The problem with the sternum strap is that it can get caught under your chin. If you put it low enough to avoid that, it may be too low to work. Because the combination of harness, seat and driver are different, the driver won't know if he has it right until he crashes.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Dec 15 2005, 02:24 PM
Gregg,

Thanks for posting those. The way I read it, the two devices sure seem to perform similarly (although seeing the HANS pop out from under the belts is a bit unsettling). How will this impact (no pun intended) getting the ISSAC SFI 38.1 certified?

[snapback]68368[/snapback]

We will certify it, but SFI won't because it is excluded by section 2.5. If SFI omits that section, which has nothing to do with head loads, they will certify it.

[JamesB]

what does the section mandate? I am no rules nerd, and I dont even know where you find the SFI spec rules.

[gsbaker]

Single point release:

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/SFI_38.1...ecification.pdf

[charrbq]

I've got my own opinion of sternum straps. I had heart surgery several years ago (about 6 yrs. before resuming a racing hobby), and I felt like the sternum strap would be a good thing. My cardiologist later told me that the cables and regrowth of cartilidge made my sternum stonger than o.e. I shared the car with a friend who, with the assist of a Corvette, put it into the wall hard enough to destroy the car and almost himself. He still suffers from the whip lash (no head and neck restraints were on the market at this time), but the bruise to his chest and heart made by the sternum clasp was of more concern to the O.R. doctor than the neck injury. I ditched the strap and bought regular ones. And of course, built a new race car.

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by gsbaker@Dec 15 2005, 03:43 PM
Single point release:

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/SFI_38.1...ecification.pdf

[snapback]68380[/snapback]

This link is broken.

Thanks,

[Catch22]

This test was obviously very similar to Renee's actual crash. Two things jump out at us...

1. We're really glad she was wearing the Isaac.
2. Now we fully understand why her shoulders were so badly bruised from the harness (the worst injury she sustained).

Thanks Gregg!

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Eagle7@Dec 15 2005, 09:56 PM
This link is broken.

Thanks,

[snapback]68412[/snapback]

Thanks Marty. Let's try again:

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/SFI_38.1...ecification.pdf

[Dave Burchfield]

Gregg,

After reading the SFI specs, it's pretty obvious that there was some coaching when they were written. ............and that's really unfortunate.

Be sure to look out the window Monday.......I'll be the one waving as I go by!

Dave

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Dave Burchfield@Dec 16 2005, 09:24 AM
Gregg,

After reading the SFI specs, it's pretty obvious that there was some coaching when they were written. ............and that's really unfortunate.

Be sure to look out the window Monday.......I'll be the one waving as I go by!

Dave

[snapback]68440[/snapback]

[R2 Racing]

Wow, interesting video. Seeing the HANS pop out from under the belt isn't very confidence inspiring.



Gregg, I'll be in contact.

[Greg Gauper]

That is a very misleading video, IMHO.

First off, those belts do not seem to have been snugged down sufficiently. It looked like there was way too much body movement. The belts have to be very, very snug in order for the HANS to work properly. When I first used my Hans, I felt 'loose' in the seat. Once we determined that you had to really snug down on the belts, I felt very secure. Prior to that we were tightening the belts 'the way we always did'.

Second, most of us do not race on a flat metal plate for a seat lacking any lateral support, such as what was tested. We racing on racing seats which do provide some lateral support. Some better than others.

Third, even though the belts slipped on the Hans, look very closely at the video and compare the total amount of head movement and neck travel of the Hans user to the non-Hans user. The Hans user still had less head and neck travel, inspite of not being used correctly i.e. the belts too loose and slipping out.

Lastly - In actual real world crashes, how often do the belts come loose in the manner shown in the video? Anybody see Brakke's crash (A Hans user) in this years E-Prod race on Speed? (If not, there is a nice photo sequence on the Prod website taken from the pit wall) Did his belts come loose? How about that IRL fire-ball crash this year by the Target driver? Did his belts come loose? How about the dozens of Nascar drivers that crash every week (probably the highest number of events to evaluate)?

To me, all that video shows is that if you don't use the safety equipment properly i.e. snug your belts down properly, proper mounting angle (which BTW is what contributed to Earnharts death), decent racing seat with some lateral support, then the Hans might not be as effective as another device.

Edit - added link to Brakke's crash. It's on the 6th page of the thread, about halfway down:

http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/viewto...r=asc&start=100