enduro damage ethics

[evanwebb]

OK, I'll throw in some thoughts here since I've had a few interesting experiences that are relevant.

If you are renting, make sure you like the car when you drive it, or you and others may suffer the consequences! I co-drove a friend's Porsche 944 ITS car that wasn't super fast but was a very predictable nice handling car no matter what the fuel state or condition of the tires, etc. and that's a car I could drive all day and not have any problems with. I also co-drove a ITB Golf that was again not super fast but well prepared and easy to drive, and again I had no problems and could have done stints in the car for days on end.

Most recently I co-drove a car that I did not think was as well prepared as I had expected, and I was rather uncomfortable driving it. The crew chief and I never really got on the same page with our communication about setup, etc. and I spun the car on my own multiple times in practice. I may have been running into my talent limitations as far as driving, but I just couldn't really come to grips with the car. At the time I thought about possibly bowing out of the whole deal and letting them keep my rental fee, and in retrospect that's probably what I should have done. In the race I was partly to blame for a crash that totaled two cars, and it might have been avoided had I not driven the car in the race. If I had withdrawn from the driving squad the team might have had to find another driver, or maybe the other rental drivers would have gotten more seat time for free... In any case I understood my obligation after the accident and ended up paying for a destoyed car.

[Scott Koschwitz]

This was exactly the information I was looking for.

I am preparing my SSM-class Miata for the "The Devil in the Dark," the 12-hour race scheduled for June at New Jersey Motorsports Park. I have run the Last Chance enduro at the Glen four times before in my car with friends under a gentleman's agreement. This race is different. The preparation is pretty daunting and fairly expensive, and the sheer length of the race adds to the risk. All this is complicated by the identification of team members, and making suitable arrangements.

The touchiest issue is ensuring the understanding about damage before the race. One driver is a good friend and a stand-up guy. One potential driver is the same, another is an acquaintance with a good driving record and deep pockets, and another is a stranger to me, but comes recomended by a good friend who is a talented driver.

I have been thinking about whether to get something in writing, and am convinced after reading this thread that I should. Any awkwardness about getting something in writing, particularly from my friend, is outweighed by the potential ugliness that may ensue if without everyone understanding the arrangement before the race.

On that note, can anyone who uses a letter of agreement or something similar be willing to share a copy? Also, can anyone share the figures they have used to calculate the per-driver contribution?

Thanks.

[Knestis]

The ONLY time I ever had trouble actually collecting for race damage, it was two guys (best buddies/teammates) both renting cars from me for a sprint race. They ran into each other and since each thought it was the other's fault - and they were both broke - they kept pointing at one-another. I had a deposit from each but not big enough to cover anything substantial, and I had to fix two fenders/doors.

Send me an email at [email protected] and I'll send a copy of what I use. It was NOT written by lawyers but has 20 years of experience wrapped up in it...

K

EDIT - If talking about getting terms in writing is awkward for you or the other party, you should *not* rent to them. You don't KNOW awkward until the stuff is bustified.

[benspeed]

I have some experience on the expensive side. I was running an enduro with my buddy John Costello driving his car. I jumped in the car and didn't even make one lap - got drilled by a BMW into the wall. Ended up costing me $1700 or so - that's racing but you must ante up if you are behind the wheel.

My rules - if you are behind the wheel and there is crash damage, offroad damage or whatever - you pay.

If the motor blows, trans blows, catches fire - owner and driver split the costs. You can't know if the problems were maintenance or driver...

Get it in writing unless you drive with somebody you know very well who will pay and can pay...

[callard]

Between me and my friends, we've always totaled up the expenses (prep, race, restoration - no fault) and divided by the number of drivers. With unknown renters, get a deposit and a contract.
Chuck

[Bob Roth]

A typical endurance race gives you a season's worth of wrecking opportunities in a single shift. It ain't fair but 1 year racing won't give you a lot of experience under your belt to recognize when prudence is dictated.

My advice, drive like your number 1 priority is to hit nothing. If your lucky you won't. Thats what I do. If you drive clean, you'll finish, and you'll be invited back.

[evanwebb]

Just a brief addition to JoeG 's thoughts.

Make sure that your codriver not only CAN (financially) pay thier part in the inevitable crash/missed shift/someoneelse's oops stuff that happens on the track. But that they WILL. This is a character issue that only you can answer. My own wallet is still 1700.00 dollars light from the person who destroyed my first racecar and swore to me that she would make it right. She didn't and apparently has no guilt for it.

Good Luck and welcome to the madness.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker

Aww c'mon Dave, everybody knows she's a crazy bitch...

[dave parker]

Aww c'mon Dave, everybody knows she's a crazy bitch...

Evan
Well, yes. But it still does not make the outcome right.

However, if I think about it too much I will just get pissed off all over again.

Thanks for the kind thought.
cheers
dave parker

[RedMisted]

I poured fuel for the Margarita team in the Nelson 24 Hour race a fews years ago. After all the wrecking I saw go on, I swore I'd never get in that mess of entering my own car in an endurance race. Instead, I'd just get an agreement from someone else to drive their car and suffer whatever consequences arise.