Here's a bombshell for you...

[Toni]

Hey Jaye,

Don’t be put off by the current politics. It will calm down. SCCA still has great racing (hopefully we’ll still have some in SEDiv. CenDiv will still have some – they just split into two parts and both parts will be racing.). We have requirements that make our racing as safe as racing can be. We have officials who are strong enough to enforce those standards. We have course workers who take their training and jobs seriously. They will take care of you should an emergency arise. We have many experienced race chairmen who do a tremendous job in putting on safe, fun, and fair events for their regions’ racers. And the competitors you race against in SCCA are the best you will ever race against.

The competitors in SCCA don’t usually become involved in the politics. They are too busy making the car perfect. Racers shouldn’t have to worry about the politics – and usually don’t have to. The surprise proposals are usually to add another worker award to the list. This time it directly affects the racers on when and where they race. If it passes every driver will have to travel just to maintain their license much less win a championship. The proposal needed to be put out for member input. But the current leaders of the regions did not bring it to you. A racer brought it to you. I can’t imagine that I will be welcomed at those meetings again after making such public statements as I have recently. So if I don’t have information for you next time, it is because I confirmed this information. Thanks Matt for working so hard for your fellow racers. There are times when they should have information that affects them. (BTW – I will not be at Jekyll until Saturday. I have a late work day that Friday and then a 5.5 hr drive.)

We have a region in the center of the division that made a proposal that would hurt their own region as much as any of the others; unless, they have other groups that are willing to pay more track rental to them than the SCCA regions do – groups like NASA. And we have some other region officials who support the proposal. The way all of this has transpired has not been in the best interest of the racers or of SCCA.

Jaye, most of the people in SCCA are wonderful and have your best interest in mind. We only have a few who are bitter herbs. Those types come like a blast of hot air and then they disappear. They are not usually in for the long term. But because they talk a good line or because no one else will do the leadership job they get elected to positions of influence. They only hear themselves. They want to be the center of the universe. And sometimes they get items get passed without the racer knowing about it. It is embarrassing for some of us that the rest of us couldn’t be open and above board with the best interest of our race programs and racers in mind.

If you choose to race with another group rather than SCCA – race hard and be safe, enjoy. If we can’t work together to make a better program for you, it is our loss.

Toni

[Mattberg]

Since the secret meeting is not division sponsored we drivers have some decisions to consider.

Pizza or big sandwich?

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by Toni@Dec 22 2005, 06:40 PM
The competitors in SCCA don’t usually become involved in the politics. They are too busy making the car perfect.

Jaye, most of the people in SCCA are wonderful and have your best interest in mind. We only have a few who are bitter herbs. Those types come like a blast of hot air and then they disappear. They are not usually in for the long term. But because they talk a good line or because no one else will do the leadership job they get elected to positions of influence. They only hear themselves. They want to be the center of the universe. And sometimes they get items get passed without the racer knowing about it. It is embarrassing for some of us that the rest of us couldn’t be open and above board with the best interest of our race programs and racers in mind.

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You're statements are a perfect example of why racer's should become more involved in leadership roles. And by that I mean taking on the responsibility of the position, not just standing on the sidelines and taking shots at individuals. That comment was not directed at you but does cover a wide range of people that take or make things far too personal.
But then again there is little appeal in becoming an official or officer with this kind of treatment whenever you upset the wrong person.

[charrbq]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Dec 22 2005, 10:43 PM
I'm just going to hit him with th super soaker and some silly string. Maybe blow the air horn or drop a couple of SBDs. No real harm.

And how do you categorize a regional official coming to this board and blatantly lying to everyone in order to fulfill his personal agenda. Now that's abuse. Calling me abusive for bringing it to light is a little rough.

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I never said you were abusive, those are your words. Don't put them in my mouth or my comments. I said you used abusive manners. Calling people names, particularly vulgar and crude names, is abusive. Threatening them with descriptions of your stature and intent is harassment. Hitting someone with a super soaker or silly string or a purse is assault and battery. That combined with the slander and libel will get you time in jail and/or a fine. You will probably be away from a computer for a while during the meeting that you seem bent on disrupting. You feel you've been wronged, then tell the person and your representatives. Let them take care of it. I'm sure they're quite capable.
Continued chest beating, threats, and crude name calling wins you no points. You may not care, but if you're going to get things done, using McCarthy style techniques isn't the way to do it.

[Toni]

Matt R.

I started to send this note to you privately but posting here might help another racer become more active in their region too. We've aired the dirty laundry here and in very much a public way. Even with the name calling and backstabbing perhaps something has been accomplished in addition to giving everyone current information.

Perhaps you and other racers will become more active in your own region and division and help maintain and grow our racing programs for future racers.

I wanted to let you know that I am one of the racers that chose to take a leadership role. I still think that the racers are the most important asset that SCCA has. I raced for nearly 30 years, was a competitor in the Runoffs 18 times. My household was a two or three racecar family. I raced HP back when Sprites and Midgets were as plentiful as Miatas and they only took 4 from each division to the Runoffs (and there were only 7 divisions). My last couple of Runoffs were at Mid Ohio. I was a race worker, or on the region board, or newsletter editor, or did driver licensing, or something the entire time I was racing. (And yeah, I also took time to be a mom and do girl scouts and the other PTA mom things). The other racer in my house is still a racer in addition to what he currently does for SARRC and SCCA. He has been a Runoffs competitor in FP, GP, & HP; sometimes with two cars – in addition to mine. He’s been RE, on the region board, a race chairman, in charge of parking for the Runoffs while they were in Atlanta, all while being a very active racer and Runoffs competitor. He also works for a pro race series.

There are many jobs that a racer can do to be a leader in SCCA and still have time to race. There are many jobs that a racer can do even if not living close to the regions' center of activity. If you race nationals, come work a regional race. If you race regionals, come work a national race or a drivers school. Be an instructor in your region's drivers school. Help organize the school. Recruit other racers to be instructors. Put the beer and Cokes on ice for the party. Write articles for your region’s newsletter. Be the region’s webmaster. If nothing else, pay attention to what your region and division does and vote in the elections. Vote for people you can trust so that you can race and don’t have to worry about the politics. Be active. Participate.

Now I’ll go back to contemplating being fired into retirement. That's such a peaceful thought.

Toni Creighton

[Krysd]

Toni,
Thanks for speaking up for drivers who are also volunteers, I wish we had more involved.

BTW, when you get fired can you draw unemployment??

Krys Dean

[Toni]

Oh sure, Krys!!

Unemployment is 3 times the SCCA rate. Plus there is medicaid, food stamps, welfare, disability, discounted transit cards, and free health care. Maybe I'll take the SCCA early retirement plan. It pays 4 times the going SCCA rate. Don't we have a Stewards Union? Won't the Union pick up the slack while we take a break to go shopping for the holidays? When I retire (get retired), I'll move to the SCCA retirement commune where I will relax and be spoon fed and have cabana boys to polish the cars.

Ahhhh, the life of leisure with SCCA unemployment and retirement benefits.

Tc

[Matt Rowe]

Toni,

Just to clarify, I already volunteer in a variety of functions within my Division. I've even been known to be one of those power crazed officials both at a track and in planning meetings. Truth be told my race car goes to only about a quarter of the events I go to and I know there are people who invest even more of their time than I do. But reading these types of discussions I can't see a reason why any of us volunteers want to deal with the grief.

I'll just have to remember to spend time over the holidays with friends/racers/volunteers that remind me of the good things about the club.

Happy Holidays and enjoy your retirement package!

[Toni]

Matt R

We volunteer because we care. Keep up the good work! Recruit another driver to volunteer.

Bryan Webb (a long term member and SCCA founding father) told me once that SCCA is not about the racing or the cars, it is about the people. It took me a few years to understand. But I have learned. It truly is about the people. And our people are some of the best people. We volunteer because we care about the people and the enjoyment we have with them. And the racing is great!

We have a few who are snits, as does everything else – this thread has proven that. But SCCA people can be more than friends. They are as much, and in some cases, more family than our biological families. All families sometimes have disagreements. I hope we all learned something from this disagreement.

Enjoy your holiday season.

I’m going to go pack for retirement. I may have to stop at the Sebring and Homestead Nationals on the way.

Matt W – what is the name of the retirement home where the residents have been added to your family membership plan? Do they have cabana boys that have race cars?


Tc

[Mattberg]

Matt W – what is the name of the retirement home where the residents have been added to your family membership plan? Do they have cabana boys that have race cars?

Sunshine Village. I have twenty family memberships and 120 votes.

TO ALL DRIVERS:

Please make the secret meeting. I may have difficulty and we need to have SOMEONE there. My flight from San Francisco doesn't get into Jacksonville until 5PM on Friday. HELP! Can anyone be there for sure?

[doesn'treallymatter]

from the forum registration page:


"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."


Sheesh

[Mattberg]

Originally posted by doesn'treallymatter@Dec 31 2005, 04:21 PM
from the forum registration page:
"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."
Sheesh

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Don't you love the people who chime in once under an anonymous name? No rules or guidelines have been violated pal.

Unfortunately, Barry Hair and a number of other officials have violated those terms by posting knowingly false information.

Still looking to find out who can make the early Friday meeting.

[Mattberg]

Regardless of all that's going on, HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Racing starts in FIVE DAYS!!!!


GO FLORIDA and NORTH CAROLINA!

[pistonwheels]

I have kept silent through all this long tirade. But I was rather annoyed by Matt's accusations and bad-mouthing of Barry Hair, so it is time for me to correct some of Matt's statements.

First though, I want to say that in all the times I have met Barry Hair, he has never done anything than try to put forward the best interests of Alabama region. He has never voted on any motion without getting feedback from his members. Barry also has constructively improved the process whereby everything that goes on in S E Div is actually made more public, by having items for the Annual Meeting agenda be provided in advance of Jekyll and getting minutes published sooner. Take note of that for later. I honestly believe that Alabama members are fortunate to have Barry H. as their R.E. and his silence in the face of Matt's tirade speeks volumes for his integrity.

To save you reading to the bottom of this to find out who it is from, I am the R.E for Central Carolinas Region.

At the 2005 mid-year meeting in Atlanta, all the R.E.'s and other officials in attendance were talking about the problems that regions have, such as getting and keeping workers, not over-stressing officials and workers with too many events, the increasing costs of putting on races, the challenge of NASA and how difficult it is for a non-racing region to get a good date on the racing calendar. Also that the R.E.'s rarely have the time at our two meetings of the year (Atlanta and Jekyll) to really discuss things and to talk about the future of racing

I made the comment that we should sit down with a bottle of good malt whisky and chat about things. All the R.E.'s thought that was a good idea, though there was some request for wine or vodka as an alternative. Based on that, I said I would arrange such a get-together for the Friday before Jekyll. We decided that just the R.E.'s would get together, because we were not going to make any specific action items. The intent was/is that we discuss a variety of issue in a relaxed manner. Hopefully we will come up with some great suggestions and ideas. If we do, those will become proposals for a following S.E. Division meeting and they WILL BE publicly aired beforehand and everyone can comment on them.

It was about at this point that Toni Creighton stood up (Toni was sitting behind me) and got on her cellphone to Jim Creighton and said (not quite verbatim) "Guess what. The R.E.'s have just decided to have a secret meeting to decide on the future of SARRC". I am not sure why Toni took this viewpoint, because none of the R.E.'s had it.

The so-called proposal that Matt and Toni have referred to was in fact just a discussion document of one possible idea. A very important fact is that it is NOT on the agenda for R.E.'s to vote on at Jekyll. If it did "appear" on the agenda, and thanks to Barry, that fact would now be made public well before the meeting, I for one R.E. would state that the vote needs to be delayed to allow for public discussion.

If you all think it is a bad idea for your elected R.E's to chat about all the various issues, challenges and opportunities facing S.E. Division then you should elect alternatives.

If you think that a constructive blue-sky brainstorming meeting can occur amongst 150 people on Saturday at Jekyll, then go for it.


Matt said "So who wants to hear what Barry did? Friggin scumbag set up the "secret meeting" at a different hotel".

This is not true.

I set up the meeting. I set it up at a different hotel because I was having problems (many places in Jekyll are closed in Jan) reserving a room where we could chat informally and relaxed. The intent was to avoid unnecessary interruptions and actually try to enjoy the discussions.

Matt also said "So here's what the scumbags did...
They didn't want any of us drivers to know what they were doing so they moved their meeting to a different hotel across town. You didn't think I'd figure it out Barry? You are one stupid hick. I made three phone calls and found you out"

Well Matt, careful who you are calling stupid (and scumbags).

Matt also made the statement about it being on the "Alabama nickel". That is also wrong (Noticing a pattern here).

It is on my "nickel". Actually my American Express card. It is NOT on CCR's 'nickel' either. I have personally layed out for this. At times recently I have been wondering why!

As it is my personal social evening for something I suggested, I'll state that I have NO problem calling the police if someone tries to barge in on my gathering.
I certainly have the liberty and right to invite who I want. There will be some non-R.E people in attendance. Let me also clearly state that NO VOTES will be taken at this meeting. It's not an offical S.E. Division meeting so we can't and we never intended to.

I'm not staying at the convention hotel either. I have stayed there in the past. I got tired of the cold rooms, the lights going out, the worn out carpeting and bedding. Why it matters where any of us stay I have no idea. Just something else Matt can gripe at I guess.

Here's some other items to consider.
The elected R.E.'s of all regions are the Board of Directors of the S.E. Division and have the responsibility to manage the affairs of the Region. Taking the time to fully discuss current matters seems a very appropriate action.

I don't think any of the R.E.'s are so stupid to think that they can "mandate" where racers will have to drive to race. We're all VERY aware of market forces.

I am very confident that all R.E.'s would make sure that any proposal, suggestion, plan or change to SARRC is fully discussed with members, made public, reviewed and would not be voted on before Atlanta 2006 mid-year meeting at the Earliest.

The reason that R.E.'s have not been continually responsing to this thread is because the whole thing is based on serious misrepresentation. It should not be necessary for us to spend time refuting things which are inaccurate at their base.

That said, I am happy that here has been so much interest and discussion about racing and the SARRC series in this thread. I just wish it hadn't been undertaken in the manner it was.

Matt may state that he has all this 'evidence' and I'm sure he has a copy of the 'proposal' (actually a discssion document), but there's no truth to the basic premise that at Jekyll the R.E.'s will vote on a limitation to SARRC races by regions.

I don't fully understand Toni's issues with the R.E.'s getting together alone to discuss racing matters. I am sure I'll hear more on that at Jekyll. Certainly Toni's posts about people keeping involed in their regions affairs are very valid. I wish that CCR had more involvement from all its racers.

MATT. You owe Barry Hair a public apology. You have made rude and disrepectful comments about him that were completely untrue.

Any further issues you have with my social evening on Friday, you can take up with me. And no, you're not invited.

Sincerely,
Martin Bartlett.
Regional Executive
Central Carolinas Region.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thank you Martin. It seems as if the people who asked Matt to calm down, get the facts, and present them on a better format - were correct as usual.

THIS is why Matt has a bad reputation.

AB

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Jan 6 2006, 08:29 AM
Thank you Martin. It seems as if the people who asked Matt to calm down, get the facts, and present them on a better format - were correct as usual.

THIS is why Matt has a bad reputation.

AB

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So Martin, Explain why it took you so long to get in front of this? If this was all your grand deal then you should have come out right away. What it looks like now is an effort to cover something up after it was exposed.

[imported_Webmaster]

4.5. CONDUCT
Entrants, drivers, and participants at an event shall conduct themselves
according to the highest standards of behavior and sportsmanship,
particularly in relationship with other competitors and officials, and in a
manner that shall not be prejudicial to the reputation of the SCCA or to
the sport of automobile racing.

[charrbq]

Originally posted by Webmaster@Jan 6 2006, 05:04 PM
4.5. CONDUCT
Entrants, drivers, and participants at an event shall conduct themselves
according to the highest standards of behavior and sportsmanship,
particularly in relationship with other competitors and officials, and in a
manner that shall not be prejudicial to the reputation of the SCCA or to
the sport of automobile racing.

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Oh, how I've waited for that quote from the person that quoted it.

[pistonwheels]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Jan 6 2006, 11:03 AM
So Martin, Explain why it took you so long to get in front of this? If this was all your grand deal then you should have come out right away. What it looks like now is an effort to cover something up after it was exposed.

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Joe,

Today is only the third time I have been to this website forum. I am not an IT race driver. Last time I was here this thread was a lot shorter and seemed to concentrate on the supposed-proposal. As that document was never presented as anything other than a discussion document, the many accusations about some covert op. plan to limit SARRC's were really so much typed flatulence.

I never considered setting up a meeting with my fellow R.E's as a "grand deal". Certainly, it was not something I considered ever necessary to publish in an IT forum.

My arranging the meeting has never been covered up. It was recorded in the minutes of the mid-year meeting.

I would not have bothered to reply at all if it was not for the ignorant and unfair accusations made about Barry Hair. Those were unjust and it was not right that Barry should receive such treatment. I could not, in good conscience, allow them to pass without comment.

Overall, I am amazed that this topic has been continued and grown to such proportions. Considering that at its base is just an intent by R.E.'s to discuss issues the division faces, the comments and critiques in this thread are completely out of proportion.

Oh, and I have been away for the last 16 days in England. Got back yesterday early am. I had received an email from Kaye Fairer mentioning this continued thread and checked in again, otherwise I still wouldn't have seen this before Jekyll.

Regards,
Martin.
CCR R.E.

[seckerich]

As an old member of CCR I can tell you that Martin is a man of his word. Thanks for the explanation.