NASA National Championships 2006

[pgipson]

We had quite a discussion regarding the different insurance programs of various groups including NASA and SCCA on this forum recently. Most NASA franchises secure a $5M general liability policy for each event. That is generally (it seems) a requirement of each track. In other words, that is the minimum required in order to play. And is in place primarily to protect the businesses involved, i.e. NASA and the track.

SCCA coverage also indemifies the regions and tracks through a general liability policy. SCCA also provides a $1M (per individual) Medical Expense Reimbursement policy that covers participants (drivers and officials). This is separate from the coverage provided under the general liability policy. SCCA insurance programs are fully explained and available to review at

http://www.scca.org/Inside/Index.asp...080%7C025&%7E=

I don't believe that NASA offers a similar individual participant insurance program.

One other difference is that NASA franchises are individual businesses, and the francise owners have a vested interest in being financially successful. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and it is the American way. But it also means that racers are not the primary Customer of NASA. HPDE is the primary NASA Customer since most participants at a weekend event are involved in the HPDE program.

SCCA regions are member run, and as such must answer directly to the participants. Don't like the way things are? You can change it. Does it take time? Damn right it does and for a reason. Changes cost money, so any change that affects a competitor better be throughly reviewed and vetted before implementation. Changes to a race program or a training program may affect safety. I think we al want to make sure changes are improvements, and are not made just to please a squeaking wheel.

I'm not sure how NASA franchises decide on changes, but since some one owns the franchise they have the ultimate decision.

There are other differences between NASA and SCCA that I'm sure we have all seen. Such things as technical inspection and rules enforcement are often cited as being different. At the regional level, these are probably not much of an issue. However, work your butt off and travel 1000 miles to race for a championship, and you won't appreciate getting beat by someone with a cheater motor.

I think that some of what NASA does is good. They get people on track. And some number of those go on to competition. But their racing program is, in many ways, far behind SCCA.

[chumpy36]

I don't believe that NASA offers a similar individual participant insurance program.

This is incorrect as far as it was explained to me. Individual participant insurance is provided. However, the amount of coverage is far lower than Scca's 1m.

However, since both insurance plans are supplemental (they do not kick in unless the participant has no insurance or their insurance runs out) it's not likely to even come into effect for the majority of participants.

SCCA regions are member run, and as such must answer directly to the participants. Don't like the way things are? You can change it. Does it take time? Damn right it does and for a reason. Changes cost money, so any change that affects a competitor better be throughly reviewed and vetted before implementation. Changes to a race program or a training program may affect safety. I think we al want to make sure changes are improvements, and are not made just to please a squeaking wheel.

Well Nasa answers directly to members as well. As you well point out, they have a vested interest in making sure participants are happy. If they are not, they don't come back = no nasa. You can believe that changes are well thought out and taken with an eye to controlling costs and increasing fun and value.

There are other differences between NASA and SCCA that I'm sure we have all seen. Such things as technical inspection and rules enforcement are often cited as being different. At the regional level, these are probably not much of an issue. However, work your butt off and travel 1000 miles to race for a championship, and you won't appreciate getting beat by someone with a cheater motor.

We've actually had pretty good tech here in the SE Region NASA. The difference is, with NASA being so young there are generally not enough staff around to take care of all the Tech needs. Therefore they tend to do the basics of saftety. Compliance issues are left up to the Series Directors. In Spec Miata this year we've had far more compliance checks than SCCA and they tend to be spread more throughout the field rather than just the top finishers. Granted, it's easier when there are fewer cars like we have now, but still the tech has been pretty good.

I think that some of what NASA does is good. They get people on track. And some number of those go on to competition. But their racing program is, in many ways, far behind SCCA.

You're right. I bet the racing program looks ALOT like scca's when they started out!

Jason

[944-spec#94]

The biggest advantage to the NASA structure from a racer's perspective is reduce buracracy.



For example. For how many years have folks been talking about the E36 in ITS, or creating a class between ITA & ITS. Or even a class above ITS.

Well reciently the ITAC has been formed. This group does a nice job, but really can only "recommend" stuff to the CRB to make changes.

The result. It takes forever to make changes. In NASA the ITAC would be the end all be all of IT rules. As long as no changes impacted safety the ITAC would pretty much have free reign of the class. Most regional directors care more about getting folks out to the track and having fun and racing than the detail of anyone class's rules. Thus if they can get a group of racers mananage the class and manage the rules all the better. Really NASA National or regional directors would not care what the weight of the XXX motor wagon is. If the racers think it will make the class better then go for it.

In SCCA there are many many layers that need to made happy to get things done. Want IT to be a national class? Well in NASA if the racers say they want it. then it pretty much happens. Want to make a IT-Faster than ITS? Draft the rules and class the cars. Go for it.

In general NASA is very open to new ideas. SCCA is less so. However as the upstart NASA NEEDS to be open to new ideas as they can't just do the samethings SCCA does. They need to find away to make themselves different.

[turboICE]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 28 2005, 08:39 PM
Which immediately diminishes the "national" status. How many races are run in the northeast? Well, none. Nothing in New England, nothing north of Summit Point or east of, what, Mid-Ohio AFAIK. So, unless you're willing to tow 6+ hour 3-4 times per year, you're not invited...?

So what we have here is a bunch of folks from the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic US that can go, a bunch from California that can go, and a bunch from Ohio/Indiana that can go. Guess who's showing up to Mid-Ohio? So how is this a "national" event?

That's unfortunate; before reading this post I'd considered it. But now...? - GA

[snapback]63939[/snapback]

Greg, so would you consider it again? No excuses now, sufficient NE races to qualify. (Qualification is completion of 5 points races in the class you desire to compete in.)

http://www.nasaforums.com/posting.ph...=quote&p=40670

November 30, 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT: Joe Lee Jr. (732) 673-2450 www.nasanortheast.org

We are pleased to announce that the Performance Drivers Association is taking over the National Auto Sport Association’s Northeast Region to offer a complete schedule to drivers and racers in our area.

The PDA is a perfect group to take over the NASA region – they have put on more motorsports events than any other club in the northeast and are dedicated to keeping their drivers satisfied.

“We have been looking to expand the region since the beginning and PDA has the professional attitude, track dates and infrastructure to take it to the next level,” says NASA Northeast’s outgoing Regional Director Joe Lee.

PDA owners Joe Casella and Joe Triolo will take over as co-directors of the region. Current NASA management is being encouraged to stay on as part of the new group. Charlie Greenhaus of Entropy Racing will be joining the management team as a partner and has been instrumental in making the deal a reality.

There are immediate plans to host at least four race weekends during the 2006 season at Lime Rock Park, Pocono International and Watkins Glen International. In addition, there will be a full schedule of High Performance Driving Events (HPDE), Time Trials, Competition Licensing Schools and Instructor Clinics. An expanded race program is expected for 2007. A complete 2006 schedule will be released shortly.

“We are very excited that we will be hosting enough events for northeast racers to qualify for the new NASA National Championships at Mid Ohio next September,” says Casella. To qualify for the Nationals drivers need to score points in at least five races in their class. Scheduled race weekends in the Northeast will each feature at least two races.

“We know that this year will be a challenge but we want to put on a professional program for both the racers and the driver’s ed students,” says Triolo.

ABOUT PDA: PDA, based in Clifton, NJ, has been conducting performance driving schools and time trials in the northeast since 1973. (www.pdadrivingschool.com)

ABOUT NASA AND NASA NE: Founded in 1991, the National Auto Sport Association is a membership-driven organization that stages more than 120 professionally managed events for automobile racers and driving enthusiasts coast-to-coast. With more than 12,000 members in 15 chapters nationwide, NASA’s amateur racing programs cover a variety of motorsport disciplines, including competition road racing, high-performance driving events for street-licensed cars, rallying, autocross, drifting and time trial competitions. NASA’s Northeast region has active since 1999. (www.nasanortheast.com — www.nasaproracing.com)

ABOUT ENTROPY RACING: As well as offering a rental fleet of racecars featuring Ford and Renault Spec Racers, they also have Spec Miatas and are a full-service racecar prep shop. Entropy Racing provides flagging for many groups in the northeast as well as running competition-licensing schools for NASA Northeast. (www.entropyracing.net)


- End

[pgipson]

Greg, so would you consider it again? No excuses now, sufficient NE races to qualify. (Qualification is completion of 5 points races in the class you desire to compete in.)

I don't think a change in the ownership of any one NASA franchise will change the perspective of most people on the National race that is planned for M-O in 2006. NASA classes are still random in nature (i.e. decided more by local needs than nationwide design) and rules enforcement spoardic (hence the legitimacy of competition is in question).

A national race focused on car shows, driving demonstrations, time trails, drifting, rallying and road racing sounds less like a National Championship event, and more like a midwest Hyperfest.

NASA franchises know what their bread and butter is and it isn't racers. It's HPDE and time trials and - in some locations - drifters.

[turboICE]

He had responded that he would have considered but that there were no NE races to qualify and he would have to go to another region. That won't be the case.

The importance of the change in ownership is 1) the combined prior NASA NE dates with the prior PDA dates increasing the NASA NE schedule substantially, 2) a complete schedule with races, 3) involvement of people who have been active already running and participating in other NASA regions, EMRA and SCCA.

None of the NASA races I have been to have been random in classing and certainly random would not be the case for IT racers - they have classes that are 100% based on IT spec classing and rules called Pro Sedan. Your impression of NASA certainly is not representative of the last couple years.

And I think it is an easy conclusion to reach that this is going to be much larger than Hyperfest. So it isn't the runoffs - but how many in IT are going to participate in runoffs next year? It is a national event and there aren't any arguments that will make it not a national event.

Personally I look forward to going and meeting and competing against others from around the country. But I guess the idea that the SCCA is not only the best way but the only way or it just doesn't count hasn't become ingrained in me. I feel fortunate that I have been more open than that and as a result am better for it with expanded opportunities and friendships.

[pgipson]

based on IT spec classing and rules called Pro Sedan. Your impression of NASA certainly is not representative of the last couple years

The discussion on the NASA forums, and the activity at the NASA events I have attended and read about would say that the Pro Sedan classes are dead in NASA. GTS, CMC, AI, AI/X, USTCC, Spec Neon, SM, the SER cup, maybe Honda Challenge -- those seem to be where most of the discussion and activity are right now. There doesn't seem to be a home for SCCA legal IT cars in NASA anymore.

But I guess the idea that the SCCA is not only the best way but the only way or it just doesn't count hasn't become ingrained in me

I didn't say that SCCA was the only way. Yes, I think SCCA has a better racing program. It offers more competition, more variety of cars, a more structured enviroment that ensures (I think) a fairer and safer race. NASA programs are primarily geared to HPDE. Their events are held primarily to get street cars on track. HPDE (and now time trials) are the money maker.

[turboICE]

I raced the entire 2005 season in PS2 and always had someone in class to race.

Low participation rates doesn't make the classing random or make it where there is no place for IT legal cars to race. A home exists for SCCA IT cars in NASA. The class exists and the same process is in place for legality as SCCA - if you think a competitor cheated you protest.

SCCA refusal to permit AWD in IT is a better example of not having a place to race a car.

[944-spec#94]

NASA does have place for SCCA IT Cars.

The issue is that in the Arizona are they are few IT cars anyway... Even in SCCA.

I am not sure why, but if SCCA has only a handful of IT cars running why should NASA have that many? It seems like most Arizona Racers are involved in other classes of racing. I could race my 944 in IT, but I find it more enjoyable in the NASA 944 spec class. My guess is this class will be represented at NASA nationals. Sadly budget/time constraints give me a slim chance to attend.

Now the NASA Nationals for 2006 will be rather small at least compared to the Runoffs. That is not to say it is not a important foundation for growth.

Personaly the combination of HPDE & Racers in NASA is distinct advantage as comapared to SCCA. On major reason is HPDE is great way to get folks out on the track and some basic driving skill before jumping into racing. To this time SCCA does not have that. SCCA requires a couple schools, but these teach little to nothing about "driving" and focus on flags and other race procedures. They really assume that you can find you way on to a track.

From what I understand SCCA is trying to meet the NASA challege, by creating its own form of DE.

Still the NASA Nationals provide another option for those that want to face drivers from across the country and battle it out for the top spot. NASA in general provides an alternative to SCCA. It will however take time for it to gather luster and it Probably won't ever carry the respect of the SCCA runoffs. That said anything can happen in the future.

[Greg Amy]

Greg, so would you consider it again? No excuses now, sufficient NE races to qualify...

Sure! With a qualifier: we've yet to see a race schedule published. Will they hit NHIS? LRP? Or, could this be - at least for the first year - just a couple of weekends at Pocono? I don't envy their hurdles that have to be jumped; getting a race weekend at LRP is about as easy as getting NY Giants tickets (and then, at what cost?)

I remain open-minded and cautiously optimistic. - GA

[turboICE]

Historically, neither PDA nor NASA-NE has had NHIS events. I don't even know if it would even be considered or not given the location of the principals and most existing participants. Also I wouldn't know the logistics involved but suspect that at this point even with a desire to do so that a NHIS 2006 date could be added now. Contacting one of the Joe's now with an interest in NHIS events would be the best starting point for 2007 possibilities.

There definitely will be Pocono races as they have already been held in the past by NASA-NE and PDA has several dates there as well. Other than T&S logistically getting race dates there would seem pretty easy to do.

I know there is a heavy desire to have races at their LRP events and I believe it is their intent to do so. I can only imagine that the intent was determined based on discussions with LRP. I know all to well how difficult LRP can be to deal with but would still hope at least one event manages to have competitive racing in its schedule.

The big one from the NASA membership stand point is that there is a good probability that the Glen events with racing.

I am sure another caveat will be conflicting weekends - it would not surprise me if a conflict arose with an SCCA event that IT members would forgo for the fledgling events.

[Knestis]

I ran a couple NASA races in P3 and, while I always had someone to race with, they were never in my class.

One theory as to why there's so little penetration of the IT cars in NASA is that the racing program was built on people who weren't getting what they wanted from SCCA classes. NASA agressively created new classes - a lot of new classes - tailored to particular marques or themes. Honda Challenge, 944 Cup, 'merican Iron, the spec Fauxbras, etc. Pretty much anyone racing an IT car was probably reasonably satisfied with running it where they were, and folks coming through NASA's DE program saw Spec e30s and other great starter options every weekend, since they all play at the same time. Few jumped clubs and newbs chose something that looked like fun racing.

Spec e30 IS a great gig, by the way. Problem is that it's already pretty balkanized, which I don't really like. Two NASA regions contacted me about IT2, in fact and said that if I could get a couple of cars in the first year, they'd make it a class. Great short-term growth tactic but not-so-clever strategy, longer run I don't think.

K

[wlfpkrcn]

The discussion on the NASA forums, and the activity at the NASA events I have attended and read about would say that the Pro Sedan classes are dead in NASA. GTS, CMC, AI, AI/X, USTCC, Spec Neon, SM, the SER cup, maybe Honda Challenge -- those seem to be where most of the discussion and activity are right now. There doesn't seem to be a home for SCCA legal IT cars in NASA anymore.

Why would ther be high activity on their site for IT classes, when this one is so good?

[turboICE]

ITA 240SX can race in PS2 or the SER Cup.

IT Hondas can race in PS classes or the Honda Challenge as they see fit.

Any IT car brought to a NASA event will have at a minimum a place to race in Pro Sedan and possibly another class as well.

A lack of board or track activity does not equate into no place to race. You can register for any NASA sprint race in the appropriate Pro Sedan class (ITS-PS1, ITA-PS2, ITB/C-PS3). The NASA home for IT exists and will continue to, the occupancy of that home may vary from region to region.