NARRC

[gran racing]

Just curious about tire selections and how it worked out. I know the dry Hoosiers were not the tire of choice based on what I saw out there. I would have been tempted to try that.

How would the full tread Toyo stacked up against Hoosier's dirt stockers?

Ray, you had some really impressive passes esp. in big bend. When you forward me the ARRC video, I'd love to get a copy of the LRP one as well. I know I'm being gready but it was a great race.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here is my take on the tires. It's about two important things:

1. Getting your tire to the pavement. The Dirt Stocker, the new Hoosier wet and the Toyo all do a great job of getting to the black stuff. Unfortunately, that is only half the equation.

2. Compound. This is what holds the tire to the track. The Toyo gets there but isn't (wasn't) soft enough to allow the tire to get warm and be effective. The two Hoosiers are way better in this regard. The DS maybe the softest, but will go away quickly if it should dry. Hoosier bills the new rain tire as both a full wet AND an intermediate when shaven or worn down. Probably the best compromise out there if you can't have 3 sets (dry, inter, and wet). It got great reviews from the drivers.

The only run group that even had a chance to use dries was G1. ITS/SPU. We had drivers from our camp go out on 4 year old Toyo's (Nick), full Goodyear dries (King), new Hoosier rain (Estes) and Kumho's (Ulfelder and Bagnall). Wilson Wright went out on Dirt Stockers. I haven't seen that kind of spread in a heat in a while.

King went the fastest of anyone on dry tires with a 1:15.033 which was faster than any tire other than the two Hoosiers. It was just too cold for anything else to get up to temp. Dave Maynard set fast race lap in his BMW with a 1:13.188. He is a great rain driver, has a soft set-up and had the Hoosier Intermediate.

AB

[JLawton]

If it was the middle of summer and 90 degrees, the dry tire would have been the way to go in race 8..................I think...........

But at 42 degrees, they just didn't get up to heat.........

I'm curious as to what Ray, Scott and Travis used.......

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by JLawton@Oct 24 2005, 10:09 AM
If it was the middle of summer and 90 degrees, the dry tire would have been the way to go in race 8..................I think...........

But at 42 degrees, they just didn't get up to heat.........

I'm curious as to what Ray, Scott and Travis used.......

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Blethen and Carlson had Dirt Stockers, Washay had Toyo's ( I think)........the new Hoosier Radial Wet seemed to be the tire of choice to start race #8.....but I think it ended up being the Dirt Stocker as the correct rubber to run.........who new !!!

[itbgti]

I am sure Raymond will respond with something like this:

"Yes, the race was fun, considering I was on 23 year old BF Goodrich dry tires my dad used during the very first IT race.....I thought since the cords were already showing, it may give me more grip...

Raymond "Wish I had Hoosier Rains" Blethen




Raymond-Sorry I could not be there to cheer you on...Mother In Law suprise 50th birthday party kept me away.....fun.

Alan

[benspeed]

I want to send out congrats to the whole ITS field for running such a clean race in lousy conditions - extra thanks to Brian Bagnall who kindly let me back in line after my bonehead spin on the pace lap. That'll tell you how slick it was. I had old intermediates on and man, what a white knuckle ride. Russ, you had me holding my breath when you spun at the downhill! Nice job just hanging on.

Huge congrats to Dave Maynard who probably wins the worst luck award of the year to come back and take second in the race and beat me out of third in the NARRC championship - nicely done. Great rides by Mark Greggory who took third on Hoosiers and Eric King in 5th who ran extremely fast on new Goodyear slicks. He ran the rim raceline and was awesome. Nick did the smart thing and not get stuck in the mud and finished a respectable 4th to clinch the championship. Tim wins - Nick stuck - Tim would have won the championship. Just like last year it came down to the final race - doesn't get any better! Another shameless plug for Flatout - Thanks Adam, Steve, Andy and Nick. (I must remember - don't screw with my car, leave it to the pros.)

Tim had a great run also. You are a champ and comport yourself like a pro. I'll post the podium victory celebration shots later today and put the link up. Not sure how to do it - Ofoto or something?

Looking forward to an even more competitive season next year!

[RSTPerformance]

Did you notice me walking up and down grid even after the 5 min . I wasn't convinced that we made the right choice till the second pace lap when I saw someone in the tire wall :119:

We all used the Dirt Stockers, and turned consistand 1:12's even with our battle and the weather... Man I remember in the dry when the car wouldn't go that fast!!!

I wasn't sure if they would last especially where it hadn't rained for more than 3 races... The line was "dry", wich made it faster than the "rain line" for most of the race, however sometimes it would sprinkle in a turn or two and change things.... Good thing we had each other to keep us on the track .. Oh and the tires are not that badly worn.


What car rolled in the uphill??? All I could see was the underside, and I couldn't figure out the car by the roof in the mirrors either Props to the track crew for clearing the mess quickly...

Raymond "Adrenalyn is still pumping..." Blethen

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Oct 24 2005, 10:31 AM
We all used the Dirt Stockers, and turned consistand 1:12's even with our battle and the weather... Man I remember in the dry when the car wouldn't go that fast!!!

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Correction: Travis was on the Toyo's. Not sure how he would have done with Dirt Stockers... He seemed to have a little better grip and could stop better than scott and I... but he also is a bit lighter than us!!!

I think the best tire for the first half would have been an Autocross tire, but the last 3 laps would have been really tough when it started to rain. (The Autocross idea was not originally my idea, but one the "eperts" that I went to for advise).

Raymond

[JLawton]

The car on his side was Steve Miller in the black and white GTi. Scared the crap out of me. From all the dirt I thought he must have rolled it a COUPLE OF TIMES!!I talked to him after and he said he did one of those sloooooooooow tips onto his side. Only damage was a few dents on his front fender and some scratches. Fortunately it looked much worse than it was.

Who was it that spun on the pace lap?? I was already white knuckling it and was afraid to look!!


Alan, too funny! But dude, your mother in-law?????

[tims90rx7]

I have nothing to say but good things about the Hoosier wets. I was on the phone with my wife who was trying to give me constant updates from the weather channel radar at home. In the end I felt I would rather get stuck with the wets on a dry track then slicks on a wet one.

The tire, once warmed up a little, (I also almost spun in the pace lap at the top of the uphill) was consistant in feel throughout the race. Even once the dryline developed in some places the tire felt good. It seemed to be a broad range tire that ran equally well in either condition and I didn't feel like I had to change my driving style based on the track conditions. I would be happy to compare it to the dirt stocker if I had any info, but this was only the second time I have ever run a wet tire in a rain race. The last time I borrowed some intermediates.

I set my pressures with the help of Bob Smart. We used the highly developed formula of somewhere between cold and hot pressures as our guide.

Thanks to all again for the warm congrats after the race. I can't wait to see those champagne spraying photos Ben.

ps. Dave M. Everyone's right about your drive from the back. Great Driving!

Tim

[BobsAuto]

[quote]
hi all-

I am glad that I was able to run with Scott and Travis to help entertain the folks that stuck around for the rain!!!! I got the entire race on video, and would love to download it to the computer for everyone to view... It has some good footage with lots and lots of saves . That was some great driving by Scott and Travis!!!


Raymond "Thank you everyone for making it a great day" Blethen


Raymond,
I don't think I have EVER heard you sound so excited as you were when you called to let us know how you did. I certainly wish now that I had gone to see the race. But I know that you will certainly repeat this fantastic driving now that you have the car sorted finally. Congrats to you for doing so well and to Travis and Scott for "working" with you to give the great performance you all gave. It's so nice to see such great kudos for you all.
Can't wait to see the video.
So Proud of you....Your greatest fans at home.

[Tkczecheredflag]

Originally posted by gran racing@Oct 24 2005, 12:34 PM
Just curious about tire selections and how it worked out. I know the dry Hoosiers were not the tire of choice based on what I saw out there. I would have been tempted to try that.

How would the full tread Toyo stacked up against Hoosier's dirt stockers?

Ray, you had some really impressive passes esp. in big bend. When you forward me the ARRC video, I'd love to get a copy of the LRP one as well. I know I'm being gready but it was a great race.

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I can't say enough good things about the Hoosier Molded Rains. I won't be able to comment on the Toyo as I have never run them. I really struggled to reach in to my sponsors (CPM MOtorsports) pocket and buy the HMR's. We had just purchased a new set of Dirt Stockers on Friday morning, hearing they would be discontinued and wanting to prepare for the ARRC in a few weeks. I like the idea that the HMR would disintegrate if the track dried out, like the DS so we grabbed a set.

First I need to say I love to run in the rain, especially at LRP. I tried the HMR in the practice session on Saturday morning and loved them. When the rain came for Race Group#3 I almost put on the new DS but resisted. I think for that race group you could have gone either way. John VanDenburgh was a bit better under braking into Big Bend than I was and I beleive he was just a little quicker because of the DS (maybe he's just a better driver - he is very good). I give high prasie to the HMR, I thought they were great, I also like the idea that you can shave them after a few uses and race them as an intermiate. I will say they are a little tough on the eyes - my car with 205x60x13 looks like something out of a Matchbox collection, or like I was going to run a Mud Bog.

Third overall for a little ole ITC car has to say something - Rain the great equalizer.

[Rabbit05]

Well first off I have to say, Tim , you ran a great race and a well desevred win ! And congrats on the Championship ! I had no idea that it was that close between you and Brian . I had an absolute blast in the rain...! The Rabbit was handling great ! Those Dirt stockers worked well in the rain,unfortunatly my right foot got to heavy coming down the hill and i lost it ... Tim,I thought i had lost you on the start , and I just needed a few laps to adjust from the Miata to the Rabbit.
But it was fun while it lasted..the damaged to the rabbit really isn't that bad...just some bent front end parts and i need a new air dam.

I have to say thanks to the workers ! Those guys were right there, really fast !! Before i even had my belts undone they were there asking if I was ok...you guys are awesome !

Well i have all winter to fix the Rabbit..once i fix it , I'll put it up for sale again.

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05

[Tkczecheredflag]

Originally posted by Rabbit05@Oct 25 2005, 12:25 PM
Well first off I have to say, Tim , you ran a great race and a well desevred win ! And congrats on the Championship ! I had no idea that it was that close between you and Brian . I had an absolute blast in the rain...! The Rabbit was handling great ! Those Dirt stockers worked well in the rain,unfortunatly my right foot got to heavy coming down the hill and i lost it ... Tim,I thought i had lost you on the start , and I just needed a few laps to adjust from the Miata to the Rabbit.
But it was fun while it lasted..the damaged to the rabbit really isn't that bad...just some bent front end parts and i need a new air dam.

I have to say thanks to the workers ! Those guys were right there, really fast !! Before i even had my belts undone they were there asking if I was ok...you guys are awesome !

Well i have all winter to fix the Rabbit..once i fix it , I'll put it up for sale again.

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05

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John - Thanks for the kind words, you know I think very highly of you and your racing skills. As you got side ways after you passed me in the downhill I was saying to myself, "god he's a great driver", and then I saw you go off. I really think you had something for me too. I felt horrible for Brian. Not sure what happened to him, I tried to call yesterday to make sure he was okay but didn't get him. I've hit that ARMCO on the uphill - it's solid - hurt my ITA car bad.
I really didn't think I had a chance to win the NARRC because of Brian skills abd I was behind 15 points, but hey "that's racing". You and Brian are young and have a tremendous future in this sport but us old guys gotta keep you honest. Have a great winter - next stop RA.

[Ed Funk]

New guy here (to the forum) old guy to racing, I started about the same time as Ray Blethen (the senior!) Had a good time at LRP, still alot to learn about front wheel drive racing. Like rear tires take a lot longer to warm up than with a rear wheel drive, witness my wall banger on Fri am! It was great racing with you itc guys, I may have had the pole but I had nothing for Tim, John or Brian in the rain, should have removed the rear bar instead of just disconnecting one side, I think it was catching on the mount in the left hander and giving full rear stiffness there, had much trouble keeping the back end behind me! Steph is a much better rain driver than I am, so next time we'll have her in the car , speaking of Steph, it was not even a little bit of fun calling her on Fri am to tell her I'd scuffed her race car ! But she was wonderfully understanding, and said something to the effect that s--- happens to race cars, I am so lucky to have her as my wife!! I spoke with Brian after the race, he was ok, car was hurt, but repairable, he said it just wouldn't turn at the uphill. As Tim and John had done earlier he caught me fairly easily and could have gone by. He said he was going to stay in 4th, because that's what he needed for the Championship even if Tim won. Better luck next year! Thanks guys it was great, and we're really looking forward to the '06 season!

[Tkczecheredflag]

Originally posted by Ed Funk@Oct 26 2005, 12:54 AM
New guy here (to the forum) old guy to racing, I started about the same time as Ray Blethen (the senior!) Had a good time at LRP, still alot to learn about front wheel drive racing. Like rear tires take a lot longer to warm up than with a rear wheel drive, witness my wall banger on Fri am! It was great racing with you itc guys, I may have had the pole but I had nothing for Tim, John or Brian in the rain, should have removed the rear bar instead of just disconnecting one side, I think it was catching on the mount in the left hander and giving full rear stiffness there, had much trouble keeping the back end behind me! Steph is a much better rain driver than I am, so next time we'll have her in the car , speaking of Steph, it was not even a little bit of fun calling her on Fri am to tell her I'd scuffed her race car ! But she was wonderfully understanding, and said something to the effect that s--- happens to race cars, I am so lucky to have her as my wife!! I spoke with Brian after the race, he was ok, car was hurt, but repairable, he said it just wouldn't turn at the uphill. As Tim and John had done earlier he caught me fairly easily and could have gone by. He said he was going to stay in 4th, because that's what he needed for the Championship even if Tim won. Better luck next year! Thanks guys it was great, and we're really looking forward to the '06 season!

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Ed - You get that Civic movin pretty good around that track. I thought it was very commendable to put it on the pole. My read is you are adjusting to the FWD very well. I know you will be a force to reckon next year. Thanks for your kind words and see you next year.

[Wes]

I would like to thank All Star Sheetmetal for spomsoring the raffle that I won Walking away with some money always helps after a long racing weekend. Thanks again!

Andy, will you be trying to update the contingency winners? Ian thinks he should have won the best appearing ITS car....

Tim Estes, congratulations again. You won my sponsors, BBS Business services, award of a free tax return for your crew chief (you?) for winning ITS. They are located in Gloucester Mass, 978-283-2367 (ask for Beverly). For all you other racers they specialize in personal and small business management tax management. They often can get you money back on prior years. They can handle this via mail & phone. Mention the SCCA racing and get a discount.

I won my own sponsorship for 10th place!