New Weight for E36 325 ITS?

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by snowmann@Nov 5 2005, 03:57 AM
Oh come on... thats a completely different kind of flying altogether...

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Yah... the battery is a very heavy object that happens to have the added benefit of pouring out acid as well... Indeed...

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 5 2005, 09:33 AM
benefit of pouring out acid as well... Indeed...

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OH yah like the 5 dollar boat box won't stop the acid... :angry: Better yet how many times I have inspected a car to find two 1/4 inch universal rods holding the whole system to the floor with the hooked end....lol

Ya'll could mandate a weight box like proracing easy to build and welded to the floor.

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 5 2005, 06:17 PM
Better yet how many times I have inspected a car to find two 1/4 inch universal rods holding the whole system to the floor with the hooked end....lol

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Exactly!

Worth the risk, I suppose, when it's in the name of a performance benefit...

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 5 2005, 11:21 AM
Exactly!

Worth the risk, I suppose, when it's in the name of a performance benefit...

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Haha, I found that .095 DOM tubing is good for Nitrous storage also...lol

[dj10]

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 4 2005, 10:41 PM
Guys,

This isn't even an issue... The rules EXPLICITLY allow you to reinforce the area where the ballast is to be placed, so all this safety stuff is BS... The rules mandate how it must be mounted, and there are cars in Production and GT that carry 200+ lbs all the time...

I made ballast for my car from 1/2" x 3" x 12" steel plate... Added 140lbs and it took up less space as a shoe box... Here is a pic of the passenger side... You can see the mount just in front of the fire-bottle:



At one time, when running Radial Sedan, I had 140lbs of ballast bolted to that plate.... I'll have to go out an measure it again, but the bolts I needed were not that long... This plate happens to have 4-nuts attached to it, so you can use up to 4-bolts if you like... and you could use multiple mounting positions to spread the load...

The point is that all this safety stuff is unwarranted... the ballast can be as safely mounted as YOU want it to be...

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weight ONLY to be added to the foot well area only in IT classes?
dj

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dj10@Nov 5 2005, 07:20 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weight ONLY to be added to the foot well area only in IT classes?
dj

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ahh, that is what I thought too. passenger side footwell. footwell does not include the area under where a seat would go or use of the seat mounting points. did the rules change or is the car pictured illegal in it?

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by mlytle@Nov 5 2005, 07:56 PM
ahh, that is what I thought too. passenger side footwell. footwell does not include the area under where a seat would go or use of the seat mounting points. did the rules change or is the car pictured illegal in it?

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You guys are right... The ITAC recommended in the early part of the year that the area be opened up to include the seat area as well... I'm working right now to verify that this is going to happen for 2006...

I'll let you know what I come up with...

Luckily for me... my car doesn't need any ballast, or it'd be illegally mounted!

[Joe Harlan]

Again completely missing the point. The weight box could be welded to the car in the footwell with out much effort.

[dj10]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 5 2005, 03:28 PM
Again completely missing the point. The weight box could be welded to the car in the footwell with out much effort.

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I'm not an engineer, but common sense tells me that 150 to 200 lbs is entirely to much weight for such a small area.
dj

[Geo]

Originally posted by dj10@Nov 5 2005, 03:38 PM
I'm not an engineer, but common sense tells me that 150 to 200 lbs is entirely to much weight for such a small area.
dj

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Hmmm.....

How big a plate did you use on the floor of your car to weld the cage tubes to?

My point is, if you're worried about mounting a 200 lb ballast box (full) to the floor with reinforced mounts, you probably ought to be worried about your cage mounts because if your car gets upside down, there will be a LOT more weight bearing down on the floorpan than 200 lbs.

[dj10]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 5 2005, 04:00 PM
Hmmm.....

How big a plate did you use on the floor of your car to weld the cage tubes to?

My point is, if you're worried about mounting a 200 lb ballast box (full) to the floor with reinforced mounts, you probably ought to be worried about your cage mounts because if your car gets upside down, there will be a LOT more weight bearing down on the floorpan than 200 lbs.

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8 different places are use for the cage. All I would want is a larger area than the floor plan still using the same side of the car. Give me the area from the back seat (where it meets the floor) to the floor pan. Don't just stick me with this weight in the floor pan.
dj

[lateapex911]

I was under the impression that the relaxed location rule had hit the GCR. I think that the area from the passenger seat footwell to the area under the seat will be the approved location.

Regarding the cage locations, while the cage may actually bear on 8 points, (and two don't count,!) if the car was inverted, the weight isn't going to be dispersed equally among the 6 remaining....or even the 4 main points, AND the weight will be significanly more than 200 or so pounds!

Honestly, I'm not an engineer either, but I do have some common sense, and this weight excuse is a huge red herring. There are dozens of ways to mount the weight. Can you define the term "Backing washer"? Do you think a tech official will not approve your car if it's too large? Not round? Welded to the floor and into some surrounding reinforced area?

Is a competitor going to protest it if the structure you fab to mount the weight to is stout?

Obviously, lets not start welding U channels like I have seen on some Rx-7s running the length of the floor, (for "jacking convenience"), but a reasonable reinforcement is appropriate.

[Joe Harlan]

common sense, and this weight excuse is a huge red herring

Haha, should be pretty clear common sense ain't so common.....

[dj10]

[quote]
I was under the impression that the relaxed location rule had hit the GCR. I think that the area from the passenger seat footwell to the area under the seat will be the approved location.

I sure hope you are right. Securing the weight isn't the problem. Securing it in a small space would be.
If you are correct and I hope you are the area described should be fine. If you have a link to that changed GCR/ fastrac I'd sure like to see it.
Thanks
dj

[Joe Harlan]

Securing it in a small space would be.

I guess that's why I get the big bucks....No job is impossible if you want to do it.

[ddewhurst]

***Luckily for me... my car doesn't need any ballast, or it'd be illegally mounted***

I agree Darin & the "admitted weight mounting frame" mounted to the area under the passenger seat is also illegal.

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 8 2005, 01:10 AM
***Luckily for me... my car doesn't need any ballast, or it'd be illegally mounted***

I agree Darin & the "admitted weight mounting frame" mounted to the area under the passenger seat is also illegal.

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Not for long... the 2006 rule book isn't out yet... On sale at bookstands near you in early 2006... :P

[Ron Earp]

Come on guys, it isn't hard to safely mount weight. Need a lot? Cut 1/2 steel plates into a shape that fits in the right area and bolt/weld it into the car - it won't move and it won't go anywhere. Besides, you won't need to add so much weight of you don't take it all out of the car in the first place - the cars are fairly heavy and you can simply leave some stuff in the car.

[ddewhurst]

I agree a common sense amount of weight can be added to a car. BUT, when the car weight is 2380# & sometimes it weighs in at the track at 2360# that will be 240# when the ITAC moves the car at 2600 to ITB. Before anyone asks, yes I have viewed 220# of weight bolted to a car. The weigh was spread in places other than the front passenger foot well.

That my friends is not common sense. (ITAC members included)

That in my humble judgement is an ongoing SAFETY issue just waiting to fly around. When is the last time a ITAC/CRB members looked at a car that had been totaled BIG TIME. The metal TEARS & the spot welds RIP apart. Friken spot welds & thin sheet metal are not ment to RIGIDLY mount a BIG 240# BLOB of metal to for the purpose the ITAC is implementing.

There were comments before Adam Mally sold his original Honda that the floor pans were comming apart after he received his continious rewards.

That is RISK that should not be allowed within the SCCA rules. Talk about the SCCA puting rules in place with liability issues. Guess I need to e-mail Matt & get his take on the issue. :P

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 8 2005, 08:01 AM
I agree a common sense amount of weight can be added to a car. BUT, when the car weight is 2380# & sometimes it weighs in at the track at 2360# that will be 240# when the ITAC moves the car at 2600 to ITB. Before anyone asks, yes I have viewed 220# of weight bolted to a car. The weigh was spread in places other than the front passenger foot well.

That my friends is not common sense. (ITAC members included)

That in my humble judgement is an ongoing SAFETY issue just waiting to fly around. When is the last time a ITAC/CRB members looked at a car that had been totaled BIG TIME. The metal TEARS & the spot welds RIP apart. Friken spot welds & thin sheet metal are not ment to RIGIDLY mount a BIG 240# BLOB of metal to for the purpose the ITAC is implementing.

There were comments before Adam Mally sold his original Honda that the floor pans were comming apart after he received his continious rewards.

That is RISK that should not be allowed within the SCCA rules. Talk about the SCCA puting rules in place with liability issues. Guess I need to e-mail Matt & get his take on the issue. :P

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Bet I could get the car up to weight in a safe safe fashion. This is one of the rules that you could use to an advantage or spend alot of time arguing tht it's not safe. The are many many cars running around with that much ballast added to them. Think very stiff safe cage. If thecage is built right it will be low well placed weight.