New Weight for E36 325 ITS?

[robits325is]

Originally posted by cbuzzetti@Nov 3 2005, 03:27 AM
We had 7 ITS cars within one second of each other.
The E46 was 2 seconds faster than the next fastest ITS car.

Charles Buzzetti
ITS Rx7 #78

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niiiiiiiiiiiice.

[Bruce Shafer]

Originally posted by robits325is@Nov 3 2005, 01:10 PM
niiiiiiiiiiiice.

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Wait, what you really mean is that must have been some kind of freak result.

One more post like that on this site and you'll have another 200 lbs of trophy lead in the E46 come January 2006.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bruce Shafer@Nov 3 2005, 01:18 PM
Wait, what you really mean is that must have been some kind of freak result.

One more post like that on this site and you'll have another 200 lbs of trophy lead in the E46 come January 2006.

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That's the kicker...probably not. The E46 323 fits the process...so it's unlikely it would be changed unless some factors come to light that were missed.

AB

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Nov 3 2005, 05:25 PM
That's the kicker...probably not. The E46 323 fits the process...so it's unlikely it would be changed unless some factors come to light that were missed.

AB

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What Andy says... The ITAC feels very happy with the E46 classficiation as it stands...

Unless we get enough data to show that this car makes some kind of unique HP increase with IT prep, it's right where the process says it should be...

That's kind of been the point of this whole deal..... With this kind of performance coming from a car with 19-less HP stock, how can anyone justify keeping the E36 at it current weight??

[Joe Harlan]

Agian not to take away from anyone but. DAve allen was the second place car. Dave tends to run on a conservative budget and toyo tires the last time I was there. This car says it was prepped by yoes preformance and I know if this is Mike he is a top level guy. The only thing I don't know here is the bcakground of the driver.

PS the track record was not broke.

ITS 1:44.501 77.09 RANDY EVANS S LAKE TAHOE, CA 90 MAZDA 05-23-2004

This is the current record above.

1 76 +ITS 1 MIKE COURTNEY(271045), MILL VALEY YOES RACING 28 SF 95 BMW 13 1:44.604

close.

[Knestis]

I'd like to apologize for my earlier rant. It looked like Mr. B. jigging for a flame war but to his credit, he didin't take my clumsy bait. My estimation of him increased because of it.

K

[MikeBlaszczak]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 3 2005, 05:00 AM
Mike, I'm not sure how to respond to you. You say you want to know what is going on. But you don't want to go through the "pain" of reading up. What do you want? Do you really want or expect a personal tutoring session? That's not going to happen. We're all adults here. If knowing is valuable to you, you'll expend some time and energy on your own to learn. If it's not, don't expect people to spoon feed you. If you do at least some research on your own and ask decent questions based upon that research I've always found this group eager and willing to help. Like many things in life, don't expect to get things just because you want them. It doesn't work that way.

Once the chaffe has fallen away from the wheat, you're right; this group is incredibly helpful.

I'm not expecting people to spoon feed me. If you look at the responses, you can see the comittee members are getting tired of answering the same questions.

To address both issues, why not make a post that explains everything, set it read only, and sticky it to the top of the forum? Why not write a whietepaper and post it? A FAQ? Get it into a single document that's updated, or a single place where the history can be read.

I don't mind digging around to find the document (or history, or book) that I need to read. Piecing through every issue of FastTrack; then stumbling on this forum, trying to figure out who the players are, filtering through the flames and emotional responses to try to get to the meat ... that's more than most people have time or patience for.

Such a document is hardly a "personal tutoring session". It's an effective, efficient way for the committe to share its cumulative policies, procedures, findings, and reasoning. It saves time for both the committee and the people the committtee serves.

Do you know where I can get a copy?

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 3 2005, 05:00 AM
Hang in there. The future is bright.

I haven't doubted a bright future, and I'm glad ya'll are trying to improve the sport.

[MikeBlaszczak]

Originally posted by dickita15@Nov 3 2005, 11:26 AM
Mike I would like to to thank you for the improvement in your tone in the last 48 hours. I appreciate it.

Thank you for your kind words, Dick.

I'm truly sorry if the way I've approached this or what I've written has offended anyone. I've learned a lot from the intelligent and thoughtful responses that I've received, and I'm always eager to learn more.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by MikeBlaszczak@Nov 3 2005, 02:47 PM
Once the chaffe has fallen away from the wheat, you're right; this group is incredibly helpful.

I'm not expecting people to spoon feed me. If you look at the responses, you can see the comittee members are getting tired of answering the same questions.

To address both issues, why not make a post that explains everything, set it read only, and sticky it to the top of the forum? Why not write a whietepaper and post it? A FAQ? Get it into a single document that's updated, or a single place where the history can be read.

I don't mind digging around to find the document (or history, or book) that I need to read. Piecing through every issue of FastTrack; then stumbling on this forum, trying to figure out who the players are, filtering through the flames and emotional responses to try to get to the meat ... that's more than most people have time or patience for.

Such a document is hardly a "personal tutoring session". It's an effective, efficient way for the committe to share its cumulative policies, procedures, findings, and reasoning. It saves time for both the committee and the people the committtee serves.

Do you know where I can get a copy?

I haven't doubted a bright future, and I'm glad ya'll are trying to improve the sport.

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Well Mike, for one thing, this site has no 'official' standing w/ the SCCA. I submit that the information that you seek would be better placed on the SCCA website. Perhaps you should write a letter requesting it. Offical policy statements or answers to FAQs, belong on the SCCA site.

What this site is, is an open, unofficial forum, that happens to have as some of its participants, several of the key players in the IT community.

[cbuzzetti]

I stand corrected it was not a new race record but a new qualifying record.
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20051001/gq5.htm
You will notice that the next fastest car was 2.2 seconds back and was on Hoosiers.
Most of the top ITS cars are running Hoosiers in SFR.
Laguna Seca has to have just the right conditions to run at the Race Record pace.
I have been within a .5 second of record race pace but everyone else was fast that day also.
The BMW set a new Q record on a day when the track was slow.
The evidence is in the close lap times of the other 7 ITS cars.

[Joe Harlan]

Agian charles the whole story:

History of qualifiying records well prepped and well driven.

ITS 1:44.727 76.93 MIKE COURTNEY MILL VALEY, CA 95 BMW 09-30-2005

ITS 1:44.981 76.74 BRANDON KRAUS CASTRO VALLEY, CA 83 PORSCHE 944 11-09-1996

ITS 1:45.391 76.44 BRANDON KRAUS CASTRO VALLEY, CA 83 PORSCHE 944 09-
29-1996

It would look to me that the record has been in place since 96...And imagine people saying the 944 isn't competitive.

Race records:
ITS 1:44.501 77.09 RANDY EVANS S LAKE TAHOE, CA 90 MAZDA 05-23-2004

ITS 1:44.812 76.86 BRANDON KRAUS CASTRO VALLEY, CA 83 PORSCHE 944 11-10-1996

ITS 1:45.988 76.01 BRANDON KRAUS CASTRO VALLEY, CA 83 PORSCHE 944 09-29-1996

For prospective: ITA Race records:
ITA 1:46.597 75.58 BOB STRETCH GARDEN GROVE, CA 89 NSSN 240SX 07-27-1997
ITA 1:47.135 75.20 BOB STRETCH GARDEN GROVE, CA 89 NISN 240 S 06-08-1997
ITA 1:48.879 73.99 NICHOLAS THEROUX REDWOOD CITY, CA 89 HONDA CRX 03-16-1997
ITA 1:49.058 73.87 NICHOLAS THEROUX REDWOOD CITY, CA 89 HONDA CRX 09-29-1996
ITA 1:50.904 72.64 JOHN BECKWITH OAKLAND, CA 88/CRX Si/HONDA 03-31-1996

[BMW RACER]

I was going to stay out of this, but since my name came up I feel I should weigh in. Dont read too much into my sucsess in Southern California, (Joe Harlen, I owe you a beer) most of that is due to a dire lack of competition (one of the reasons I'm looking elsewhere for next season) Chuck Buzzetti has the potential to keep me honest when he gets his car dialed in. Last year I ventured up North for two races and got beat both time by Randy Evans' RX7!

[Joe Harlan]

Dont read too much into my sucsess in Southern California, (Joe Harlen, I owe you a beer) most of that is due to a dire lack of competition

Now your either neing modest or you blowing a little sunshine up my tailpipe. Do I need to go get Frank into this conversation. I would think that his 300Z should be somewhere close to as competitive as they come.

Joe

[mlytle]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 3 2005, 06:08 AM
This is TOO f-ing funny!

So, all the BMW guys have NO problem bolting in a 250 pound human onto a 50+ pound seat...that all bolts to four seat mount bolts at every driver ed event from Bangor to San Diego, but actually using engineering to bolt some inanimate objects to the same area suddenly becomes a big safety concern???

yea yea yea, I know, a lead brick to my ribs is going to hurt more than big guy with a helmet flying around the interior in the event of an "OCE"... but lets not split hairs here.

pullleeeezzz..... think logically....if you can't figure out a solution, give it to someone (anyone, LOL) who can.

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ummm, maybe you need to to be the one thinking logically here..
that passenger person is sitting in a seat that is bolted to four points of the floor that are structurally reinforced at the factory for this purpose. the person is held in that seat by a harness or seatbelt that is anchored to a roll cage or to additional mounting points on the b-pillar and rocker area. again, reinforced for this purpose.
--vs--
bolting 200+lbs of weight to the sheet metal foot well area of floor that was not designed to support that much weight.

yes, it is a concern. if the weight can be put somewhere other than just the foot well, the concern changes.

[Joe Harlan]

yes, it is a concern. if the weight can be put somewhere other than just the foot well, the concern changes.

I agree I have always said if you want weight to work correctly you have to put in a proper place. I think 100lbs bolted to the core support would have more effect that the passenger side of a RWD or FWD car. Now rear engine rear drive hand it behind the rear axle for a proper effect. There is no reason a proper ballest box could not be built. I believe Darin has a god example of one in his car asn if he can't photo it I will get mine out of the trailer this weekend. For any system to work there has to be a willingness to make it work.

[cbuzzetti]

John I knew we could eventually drag you in.
I wish I could get my electrical problems solved. Having to cycle the key to fix the limp mode issue during the race just isn't any fun.
My plan is to remove the engine harness and do a full inspection to see if I am having a intermitant short some where. Unfortunately it does not show up until about the 3rd session of the day.
I have replace almost every electrical component on the car. Oh well!!!
John did you race on Hoosiers when you went north?
My fastest lap at Laguna was on Toyo's. I must of had everything just right and made less than 4 mistakes.
Randy sure can drive that RX7 not to mention it is prepared very well.

See you at the CalClub enduro, Cheers!

[BMW RACER]

Now your either neing modest or you blowing a little sunshine up my tailpipe. Do I need to go get Frank into this conversation. I would think that his 300Z should be somewhere close to as competitive as they come.
Joe

Franks car is very well prepared and driven, but Frank will be the first to admit that the 300zx is not the hot tip for ITS. Frank has a long history with Datsun/Nissan That's why he chose that car.

John did you race on Hoosiers when you went north?

Chuck. I stepped up and plonked down the dosh for Hoosiers both times I went up against Randy. I needed all the help I could get! Toyo's were about a second a lap slower.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by mlytle@Nov 4 2005, 12:19 AM
ummm, maybe you need to to be the one thinking logically here..
that passenger person is sitting in a seat that is bolted to four points of the floor that are structurally reinforced at the factory for this purpose. the person is held in that seat by a harness or seatbelt that is anchored to a roll cage or to additional mounting points on the b-pillar and rocker area. again, reinforced for this purpose.
--vs--
bolting 200+lbs of weight to the sheet metal foot well area of floor that was not designed to support that much weight.

yes, it is a concern. if the weight can be put somewhere other than just the foot well, the concern changes.

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Italics mine...isn't it possible to utilize those same mounting points? If they are strong enough for the leverage and moments a seat will impart, I would think they would be an ideal point to mount a bracket of sorts for weight.

Maybe I am missing the logic of something though..

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 5 2005, 02:31 AM
Italics mine...isn't it possible to utilize those same mounting points? If they are strong enough for the leverage and moments a seat will impart, I would think they would be an ideal point to mount a bracket of sorts for weight.

Maybe I am missing the logic of something though..

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Guys,

This isn't even an issue... The rules EXPLICITLY allow you to reinforce the area where the ballast is to be placed, so all this safety stuff is BS... The rules mandate how it must be mounted, and there are cars in Production and GT that carry 200+ lbs all the time...

I made ballast for my car from 1/2" x 3" x 12" steel plate... Added 140lbs and it took up less space as a shoe box... Here is a pic of the passenger side... You can see the mount just in front of the fire-bottle:



At one time, when running Radial Sedan, I had 140lbs of ballast bolted to that plate.... I'll have to go out an measure it again, but the bolts I needed were not that long... This plate happens to have 4-nuts attached to it, so you can use up to 4-bolts if you like... and you could use multiple mounting positions to spread the load...

The point is that all this safety stuff is unwarranted... the ballast can be as safely mounted as YOU want it to be...

I'm curious as to how many of you who are worried about the ballast were all for moving the battery location to this very spot??

[snowmann]

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 5 2005, 03:41 AM

I'm curious as to how many of you who are worried about the ballast were all for moving the battery location to this very spot??

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Oh come on... thats a completely different kind of flying altogether...