New Weight for E36 325 ITS?

**benspeed** · 10-28-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by lateapex911@Oct 28 2005, 03:35 AM
You'd be pissed as you said, but would you understand?

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Forget to comment here - yes, I would be pissed. But I would outspend my competitors and win anyway! (More money than talent Racing, LLC - speed can be bought, but not brains)

**mlytle** · 10-28-2005, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Oct 27 2005, 09:22 PM
Tell me the top prep cars that run on the tracks Nick holds the records on. When was York's SPRINT car (now sold) run at WGI? The enduro car is less than the machine he rocked with at the 2004 ARRC in Qualifying.
AB

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ed york only drove his enduro car at the glen for this years july race. he has driven his max prepped sprint car there all races previously.

**lateapex911** · 10-28-2005, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by benspeed@Oct 28 2005, 10:54 AM
LOL!!! My wife would rename it BigIdiot racing or "You could drive a Porsche C4S for the money you spent". BigSpend Racing - my sponsor may bum on that. Oh yeah, that would be ME!

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ROTFLMAO...

I bet you do what an old client of mine always did...

The first time I met him, he walked in off the street with his wife,, and said he wanted to convert a room into a little home theatre...He looked well monied, and his wife was wearing a new watch with a tennis braclet band sporting dozens (and dozens) of diamonds.....

I had a hunch...quoted him a moderate theatre of about 80K. He looked at the proposal, listened to my explanations, nodded, and said, "How did you come to the bottom line??"

I started explaining (the obvious) I added the stuff up, some labor and......

He intereupted..."No, how did you decide to sell me a system that costs $70K, rather than $30K or $100K.???"

Hmmm..I talked about how it seemed that it was the appropitate level for the quality he was after...

He shook his head no, smiled, and said, "Not buying it..."

"OK," I admitted..."Your wife was showing off her new watch when you were in, and I figured it was a bribe of sorts...so I thought something of equal value would work."

He laughed, smiled, and said.."Bingo! Order the stuff..when can you install it all?? This is gonna be GREAT!!! "

**benspeed** · 10-28-2005, 09:06 PM

Jake you have me pegged!

**dj10** · 10-30-2005, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by benspeed@Oct 28 2005, 09:59 AM
I would outspend my competitors and win anyway! (More money than brains)

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benspeed, Adopt me and the hell with everthing else, lets go racing!

dj

**snowmann** · 10-30-2005, 01:42 PM

I think its hillarious that people with half-prepped e36's are trying to say that this will affect them because of the guys that are at full prep. You picked the class, and then built/bought a car that wasn't built to the max level of prep. Now you are going to complain that you wont be competitive anymore? When did you ever win a race? when no one with a prepped car showed up? Honestly, if you aren't going to build a car that is to the full extent of the rules then why are you racing in that paticular class? The rules are designed to be equal at the same level... if you aren't going to the same level as allowed then how do you expect to be equal. We race an e30 in its, our car will get spanked by any e36 that shows up. Its just a given, I guess I dont see what the problem is in trying to even out a field... What are you winning? are you that worried about your plastic trophy at the end of the day? There are always gonna be those "im gonna take my ball and leave" types... what can you do about it? If you are worried about the integrity, and future of IT, do you really want those people in the class in the first place?

**dj10** · 10-30-2005, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by snowmann@Oct 30 2005, 12:42 PM
I think its hillarious that people with half-prepped e36's are trying to say that this will affect them because of the guys that are at full prep. You picked the class, and then built/bought a car that wasn't built to the max level of prep. Now you are going to complain that you wont be competitive anymore? When did you ever win a race? when no one with a prepped car showed up? Honestly, if you aren't going to build a car that is to the full extent of the rules then why are you racing in that paticular class? The rules are designed to be equal at the same level... if you aren't going to the same level as allowed then how do you expect to be equal. If you are worried about the integrity, and future of IT, do you really want those people in the class in the first place?

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You speak of max level prep. I don't mind anyone maxing out their car, just don't over to the dark side! The people that are using illegal cam timing, valve springs and bores, or what ever. Are these the cars that the ITAC or CRB are getting their numbers from? Some people will interpret to suite themselves knowing they are over the border line of being legal. Are these the people that will beat you? I don't know about you but I want to beat people because I drive better not because I cheat. I hope the ITAC & CRB have the legal data from Legal Cars.
dj

**snowmann** · 10-30-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by dj10@Oct 30 2005, 06:19 PM
You speak of max level prep. I don't mind anyone maxing out their car, just don't over to the dark side! The people that are using illegal cam timing, valve springs and bores, or what ever. Are these the cars that the ITAC or CRB are getting their numbers from? Some people will interpret to suite themselves knowing they are over the border line of being legal. Are these the people that will beat you? I don't know about you but I want to beat people because I drive better not because I cheat. I hope the ITAC & CRB have the legal data from Legal Cars.
dj

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yea thats what i was getting at, but also the fact that people are saying that the addition of a weight penalty would hurt there under prepped car more so. I beleive that a fully built rule abiding car should be dyno'ed and then they should go from there. However this is next to impossible, whos to say the competitor of a e36 wouldnt de-tune there vehicle prior to a dyno, or submit a previously de-tuned sheet. The car is clearly fast, too fast? thats why we have the big wigs i guess. I dont get what is wrong with the SCCA trying to promote close racing, and not schumacher style domination. There is a difference between driver skill and car level, ideally the driver of the e36 should be able to hop into an rx7 of equal prep and put down the same lap time right? (to a degree) Lets be honest here, how many people are actually going to give the SCCA the bird and straight up leave? and as i mentioned, do we really want that mentallity to represent the integrity of our class anyway?

I will laugh when the e36 guys in a couple of years are protesting the hell out of the new 'hot' car.

**Knestis** · 10-30-2005, 05:01 PM

I'll just put out there that anyone who knows of an illegal ITS 325, and hasn't protested it, may well be part of the problem.

K

**snowmann** · 10-30-2005, 07:07 PM

I like how are target range for power to weight is in the neighborhood of 15... however our car with a bmw advertised hp rating of 135, and a ITS weight of 2600 puts down a number not so close to that 15...

you do the math...

**Andy Bettencourt** · 10-30-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by snowmann@Oct 30 2005, 07:07 PM
I like how are target range for power to weight is in the neighborhood of 15... however our car with a bmw advertised hp rating of 135, and a ITS weight of 2600 puts down a number not so close to that 15...
you do the math...

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All we can control right now is what is newly classified, re-classified or to use PCA's to try and return some class equity if there is an glaring error...IE: weight or an RP.

If you are talking about the E30 318is - how does ITA sound?

AB

**Geo** · 10-30-2005, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by snowmann@Oct 30 2005, 06:07 PM
I like how are target range for power to weight is in the neighborhood of 15... however our car with a bmw advertised hp rating of 135, and a ITS weight of 2600 puts down a number not so close to that 15...
you do the math...

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I won't speak to specifics, but I can tell you that 15 is just a number that was thrown out there as an example. Don't read anything into it.

**lateapex911** · 10-30-2005, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by dj10@Oct 30 2005, 02:19 PM
You speak of max level prep. I don't mind anyone maxing out their car, just don't over to the dark side! The people that are using illegal cam timing, valve springs and bores, or what ever. Are these the cars that the ITAC or CRB are getting their numbers from? . I hope the ITAC & CRB have the legal data from Legal Cars.
dj

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First.........(and yes, I personally know as well as anyone of the trials and tribulations of protesting,) it's up to us to police ourselves. If you know a guy who's suspicious, it's YOUR duty to take some form of action. Have a chat..talk to tech about checking the entire class or model of cars for the infraction you suspect, band together with other drivers and bring forward a group action, or just write the papers yourself. Whatever it is, just do something....or no complaining later..

Second, yes, the ITAC, and (I am sure) the CRB is well aware that the numbers considered must be represntative of full on, but completely legal efforts. This is a numbers game, and while there are lots of things that happen on the track that lead one to think one thing or another, it must remembered that seeing is not always worth believing.

**benspeed** · 10-30-2005, 11:22 PM

Let's talk about prep. I was able to grab 3rd at Nelson Ledges and have never turned a wheel there. Started dead last. BUT, I definetly had the best car there. (OK I drove 400 miles there on Sat night, raced Sunday, and drove 400 miles home. Jake, my wife wants a new something. No more kids, sorry)

Prep is what wins races. Half the game is played off the field. Engineering, prep, teamwork, patience, perserverance and drive - and the driving. That's what wins.

One thing to say in favor of the E36 - there wasn't one car there. That blows. I think this car should be running in ITS and if guys feel chased out that's not cool. Makes me even more serious about setting one up - it is such a great car to race.

Autotechnic - c'mon I know you're just back from NHIS and drinking a cold one about now. So what's the weeked story?

**Z3_GoCar** · 10-31-2005, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by benspeed@Oct 30 2005, 08:22 PM

Autotechnic - c'mon I know you're just back from NHIS and drinking a cold one about now. So what's the weeked story?

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Hey Ben, I heard from the Z3 board there was a fatal at NHIS in the BMWCCA event. A guy went into the wall at 100mph between NASCAR turns 1 and 2. He was semi consious being pulled from the car but was DOA. I'm sure that any racers from the North East will soon learn more details. This racers name escapes me at the moment; however, I pray for the well being of his family.

James

**lateapex911** · 10-31-2005, 04:01 AM

Yes, sadly there was a fatality...

here's a link.

I know this board will handle this properly.

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...?showtopic=6536

**snowmann** · 10-31-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Oct 31 2005, 12:36 AM
All we can control right now is what is newly classified, re-classified or to use PCA's to try and return some class equity if there is an glaring error...IE: weight or an RP.

If you are talking about the E30 318is - how does ITA sound?

AB

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I think that makes more sense then ITS dont you? I mean obviously ITA cars aren't far off of the ITS crowd but still that sucker is just an under-dog... And doesnt the z3 even run ITA? all other cars with this very same motor run ITA... this car somehow got thrown in ITS? doesnt make much sense... We race Midwest Council as well, There are a few ITA guys that will follow, if not lead the top ITS guys at BH farms...

Right now we are just having fun getting out there and running

**Andy Bettencourt** · 10-31-2005, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by snowmann@Oct 31 2005, 10:59 PM
I think that makes more sense then ITS dont you? I mean obviously ITA cars aren't far off of the ITS crowd but still that sucker is just an under-dog... And doesnt the z3 even run ITA? all other cars with this very same motor run ITA... this car somehow got thrown in ITS? doesnt make much sense... We race Midwest Council as well, There are a few ITA guys that will follow, if not lead the top ITS guys at BH farms...

Right now we are just having fun getting out there and running

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IIRC, the 318is (1991) was recommended for a change to ITA. Darin can verify but if not, a letter would get the process rolling. Seems like a no-brainer. Betting it would be around SE-R/NX2000 weight.

AB

**Banzai240** · 10-31-2005, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Nov 1 2005, 03:03 AM
IIRC, the 318is (1991) was recommended for a change to ITA. Darin can verify but if not, a letter would get the process rolling. Seems like a no-brainer. Betting it would be around SE-R/NX2000 weight.

AB

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I'm pretty sure that we moved this one, at a weight similiar to the Z3... I'll see if I can find the exact date of the recommendation... NO one on the ITAC felt that this car belongs in ITS, if I recall correctly... (a thing that's a bit iffy these days!

)

**snowmann** · 11-01-2005, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 1 2005, 03:28 AM
I'm pretty sure that we moved this one, at a weight similiar to the Z3... I'll see if I can find the exact date of the recommendation... NO one on the ITAC felt that this car belongs in ITS, if I recall correctly... (a thing that's a bit iffy these days! )

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Not to sound too bias'ed but the newer motors have a higher hp... they call it the m44... (whats in the 1.9 z3) so really seeing as how the z3 shares e30 chassis components id almost assume that the e30 should weigh as it does in ITS...2600

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