Concerned about IT's Future

[Catch22]

Originally posted by hare_ITC@Oct 23 2005, 02:45 AM
To me it doesn't matter if my car has 300 hp or a measley 80 or whatever the rabbit has, so long as I can run with someone it will be fun. I thought that was the way amateur racing was supposed to be. My .02

Ron Davis
#22 ITC rabbit

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That is absolutely 100% correct. I have driven alot of cars, and I say without hesitation that my ITC Civic is the most fun of the bunch.
And the guys I race against in ITC are first rate. Anyone who saw the race we had at Road Atlanta in July of this year won't soon forget it, and none of us ever so much as touched each other (well, except to bump draft). The most fun I've EVER had in a vehicle, and it has wayyyyy LESS than 100hp .

The problem is that the average joe doesn't understand this. When a non-racer type asks me what kind of motor I have in the car, the looks on their faces are always ones of disbelief when I tell them its the original wheezing 1.5 liter. When they ask for power numbers, I tell them "less than 100."
Most of the time I think they think I'm joking with them. In an age of NASCAR, F1, and 400hp turbo drift cars, the idea of a race car with a two digit power number is almost unfathomable to those that aren't "in the know."

But at the end of the day, my car hits the apex of turn 1 at Road Atlanta just as fast as those cars with 3 to 4 times its power. Faster than some of them , and it does it for a whole lot less money.
This is where we need to get more folks "in the know"

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 23 2005, 11:41 AM
The most fun I've EVER had in a vehicle, and it has wayyyyy LESS than 100hp .

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I hope you are excluding certain back seat activities.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 23 2005, 10:41 AM
When a non-racer type asks me what kind of motor I have in the car, the looks on their faces are always ones of disbelief when I tell them its the original wheezing 1.5 liter. When they ask for power numbers, I tell them "less than 100."
Most of the time I think they think I'm joking with them. In an age of NASCAR, F1, and 400hp turbo drift cars, the idea of a race car with a two digit power number is almost unfathomable to those that aren't "in the know."

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Peter Egan wrote a column about this very thing about 20 years ago about people asking him the top speed of his HP Spridget.

[Catch22]

I get that all the time. Mostly in places like gas stations and roadside eat stops.

"Whats it got in it? Type R motor?"
"What'll it do in the 1/4?"
"How fast will it go?"

I love answering these questions. Because the answers are...

"The 1.5 it was born with."
"I dunno. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 to 18 seconds."
"It hit 118 once at Daytona. With a draft and a tailwind."

Its usually at this point that the person walks away. But if they are genuinely interested I try to explain things. Mostly I think they think I'm being a smartass.
[shrugs]

Hey Baker...
That ARRC ITC race from last year made a hard case for "better than sex."

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 23 2005, 11:41 AM
...the idea of a race car with a two digit power number is almost unfathomable...

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It's a hell of a lot more fun to make a slow car go fast than to make a fast car go fast.

Unfortunately, far too many people have an instinctive knack for making just about any car go slow, so they try to make up for it with a faster car... - GA

[charrbq]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 23 2005, 11:31 PM
I get that all the time. Mostly in places like gas stations and roadside eat stops.

"Whats it got in it? Type R motor?"
"What'll it do in the 1/4?"
"How fast will it go?"

I love answering these questions. Because the answers are...

"The 1.5 it was born with."
"I dunno. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 to 18 seconds."
"It hit 118 once at Daytona. With a draft and a tailwind."

Its usually at this point that the person walks away. But if they are genuinely interested I try to explain things. Mostly I think they think I'm being a smartass.
[shrugs]

Hey Baker...
That ARRC ITC race from last year made a hard case for "better than sex."

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The first question I get is, "Is that a race car?" That's followed by, "That ain't now race car, that's a station wagon!"

When they ask engine size, I tell then and admit it's pretty much stock...with a few modifications. But when they ask me such things as quarter mile, horsepower, and top speed...I tell them what they want to hear. They go away with a smile and wonderment. We will never meet again, but the tails they will tell.

I was asked once why it had slicks on all four wheels. The guy wondered if it would boil all four in the quarter. To him, I shook my head and walk away. :P

[Knestis]

When I used to commute in the Renault Cup Alliance in college to the U of Washington, and drive it to work and on errands in Seattle, I tried for a long time to explain to people what it was. They were never very happy...

Then on a date to the zoo in Tacoma, a guy at an ice cream place snared me in the parking lot and I discovered that people were WAY more satisfied if I just lied:

"Dude - how fast is that thing?"

"One-sixty or so, depending on which track we're at."

"Coooool."

BUT, come an IMSA race weekend, people would stand for every lap of that race - at a top speed of barely more than half of my fib figure. A 55-hp Renault makes a "modern" ITC car look really fast.

K

[Catch22]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 24 2005, 12:06 AM
It's a hell of a lot more fun to make a slow car go fast than to make a fast car go fast.

Unfortunately, far too many people have an instinctive knack for making just about any car go slow, so they try to make up for it with a faster car... - GA

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Funny you should mention that.
Have you seen the in car video of the guy in the 450hp Mitsu EVO at Laguna Seca? Its... Uhhh... Awful. I've had Novice DE students do a better job.
But of course, he had 450hp, so he won. He's apparently all proud of that.

You should see the ass spanking he's laying on the ITA cars. He's awesome!!!

Scott, who is motivated to go down to the local Jr. High tomorrow and whip some 7th grade asses on the playground.

PS - This guy was turning laps at right around the track record for T1, which sounds great until you consider that he was basically driving a World Challenge GT car. Then he's about 10 seconds a lap off the pace.
But those are just silly old numbers. Whats important is the way he smacked down that ITA RX7 entering the corkscrew. He sure taught that guy!

(yes, I've had a motorsports lifetime of shitty drivers in fast cars and yes it annoys the shit out of me)

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Knestis@Oct 23 2005, 10:14 PM

"Dude - how fast is that thing?"

"One-sixty or so, depending on which track we're at."

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My favorite response: "I've never had it over 185."

[planet6racing]

Originally posted by gsbaker@Oct 24 2005, 05:17 AM
My favorite response: "I've never had it over 185."

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I've just started converting to kilometers per hour. It sounds so much better (120 mph = 193 kph) and you're not lying! Just don't tell them the units and let them ASSume...

[JamesB]

I was at a friday track day to shake down the ITB golf. I had a lot of the same questions about the motor and its power. but the only nice part about it was once I got out on the track most relized that sure I dont hit 130 down the front strait but I was actually being held back in the technical portions and got a pass from both of those asking me about the car that day.

Also I found that many kids take the idea of racing and think the entry fees are double track day fees. When I finally explain what I would spend on a typical race weekend (unless the fees double next season.) they where amazed.

But I think you get a better reaction at a track day then you do at the mall.

[RacerBowie]

Originally posted by planet6racing@Oct 24 2005, 09:03 AM
I've just started converting to kilometers per hour. It sounds so much better (120 mph = 193 kph) and you're not lying! Just don't tell them the units and let them ASSume...

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I tell them that 5th gear runs out at about 135 or so at 8000 rpm.

That is a true statement. Just because my car won't get there doesn't mean 5th gear at 8000 doesn't equal 135.

[gran racing]

I always tell them about 90 mph, but that's in a 90 degree turn with another car less then 1 foot away from me.

[Wayne]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 23 2005, 11:31 PM
I get that all the time. Mostly in places like gas stations and roadside eat stops.

"What'll it do in the 1/4?"
"How fast will it go?"

I get the same type of questions as well. Latest was this year when my family and I came out of the restaurant where we stopped on the way home. A women and her son had parked next to our rig and were out looking at the race car when we approached.

" Nice car" - "thanks"

" Do you race Nascar?" - "eh, no"

" Do you race on tv?" - "um, no"

" Where DO you race?" - "road racing, on a road course"

" A what?" - "road course, closed circuit, paved, about a mile to three mile in length, elevation changes, etc"

" What?" - repeat above

" So, you don't race nascar?" - "no"

" How fast will it go in the quarter mile?" - "have no idea"

"You don't know, why not?" - I don't drag race, I road race"

"Road Race?" - "Sigh, I have to go now"

" How come the door opens like that?" - "I've really got to go now..."

" Is that red pull handle (fire suppression) for the nitrous?" - "Have a nice evening, gotta go"

The severe let-down these people experience almost makes me feel bad.

The only solace from this last encounter was that the womens teenage son had leaned up against my left front wheel in an attempt to see into the cockpit better. He had a nice brake-dust outline of my wheel on his tan docker shorts...

Wayne

[Wayne]

Originally posted by JamesB@Oct 24 2005, 02:13 PM
Also I found that many kids take the idea of racing and think the entry fees are double track day fees.

Most people have a coronary when I tell them how much it costs to race. I've found the best way to discourage most potential newbies is to simply hand them a copy of the GCR (I keep a couple old copies on hand for those that are interested).

me: "here is a copy of the rule book for our organization"
newbie: "holy crap, look at how thick that thing is!?!?"

me: "you can have that copy if you want, it details the licensing procedures and car rules etc"
newbie: thumbing through the book, "licensing procedures?, you have to have a license?"

me: "yup, go to school, pass a test etc"
newbie: hands GCR back, "eh, ok, thanks anyway"

I did have one guy keep the book and email me the next day with some very detailed questions. It was evident he had read the whole thing that day. I asked him if he was related to Kirk...

Wayne

[Bill Miller]

Had a guy and a friend of his come by my house to by some VW parts once. They wanted to see the race car, so I showed it to them. Got the standard "how fast is in the 1/4 mile", and "why doesn't it have a turbo" questions. When I told them that I road race, not drag race, the one guy said "Oh, you mean like in "The Fast and the Furious"? I was really kind of speachless. It's really a shame that so few people understand what we do. Not sure what to do about it though. I guess our only hope is to try and educate them.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Oct 24 2005, 01:15 PM
I guess our only hope is to try and educate them.

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Bear in mind that much of the non-racing community's "education" comes from popular entertainment and media coverage. Road Racing, just by it's very name evokes thoughts of FNF scenes b/c it uses the words "road" and "race" together - what most folks hear when we say Road Racing is actually Street Racing. What a different in just one word, eh?

It's very difficult to explain road racing to anyone and especially the younger crowd, most of whom can't be bothered with rules and regulations which are for us old f**kers. The vast majority of the Tuner Kids were raised on the Playstation and want instant gratification - in other words, all this "going to racing school" and "building a legal car" is just a waste of time when they can go "race" their buddies on the Interstate at 1 am. Lastly, we all accept that our racecars are expendable b/c s**t happens - the Tuner Kids are driving their "baby" and while they have a desire to race, they aren't willing to accept or even understand that their "baby" can go from Creampuff to Scrap pile in a matter of seconds.

[gran racing]

From road racers’ perspective, my friend and I had an interesting conversation with one of the local roundy round track club members. Two years ago we went to Race-a-rama. One of those events where vendors get together, but it turned out 99% of it is geared to oval track racers. Anyway. Out of curiosity we went up to one of the booths. So, how much does it cost to enter a race with your club? $15. Oh, that’s not bad. But how much does it cost to actually race, not just watch. $15. Huh? How much? $15. Seriously? :119: Well, what are the other costs someone has to pay to the club? What do you mean, he says. There have to be some hidden costs. Nope, pay $15 to race or $15 to watch. What about licensing annual fee costs? As he laughed…you pay $15 to enter a race and that’s it. Needless to say both of our faces were on the ground while thinking why do we spend $280 for one single race weekend? Now all we need to do is get them to start racing at some road circuit courses like the NASCAR boys and still have it cost $15 to race.

[Wayne]

Originally posted by gran racing@Oct 24 2005, 06:51 PM
So, how much does it cost to enter a race with your club? $15. Oh, that’s not bad. But how much does it cost to actually race, not just watch. $15. Huh? How much? $15. Seriously?

Isn't that the truth. I spent 6 years in and around the local circle track scene before coming to road racing 5 years ago. The cost structure and mindset is completely different. Their trophies are huge, the trophy girls are hot, and their sponsors and the track actually PAY THEM money to run.

We have local beater small car classes with very minimal build requirements that pay $300-$500 to win at some of the enduros. These guys have all of $600 or so into these little things (at most), and pay a $20 gate fee to race each night against full fields!

The sponsor mindset is completely different as well. The circle track guys EXPECT to have sponsors in order to even get on the track. Many of them simply will not race if they don't have sponsors to foot a good portion of the bill (if not all of it). When I tell these guys that I don't have any sponsors (at least what they think of as a sponsor $$$$$) in road racing, they look at me like I'm a complete idiot... wait, ok nevermind.. The thought of an individual footing almost the entire cost to go racing is just not in their mindset.

Having said all that, you won't find me bad mouthing circle track racing, as I miss many aspects of it. While I usually had more car repair/maintenance on my circle track car then I do on my road race car, road racing has been far, far more stressful on my family then circle track racing ever was.

Wayne

[JLawton]

Originally posted by Knestis@Oct 23 2005, 09:14 PM
Then on a date to the zoo in Tacoma,

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Hmmmm, did you actually get a second date??



I did circle track for a season. $20 to get in and last place paid $40!!! Of course, you had to dodge the fights and flying beer bottles.........


Quastion I get the most: Do you race at Stafford (local circle track), as if that's the only track in the state........ :angry: