Concerned about IT's Future

[specialtyautomo]

[quote]
In the Southeast I think it is Spec Miata.

I'd be willing to bet that if you look at OVERALL entries for a regional weekend from 5 years ago compared to today the number would be very similar.

The thing is, now there are 5 to 10 fewer cars in each of the IT classes and 40 cars in SM.

This is what bothers me about people constantly saying that SM is GRRRREAT for SCCA. "Look at how popular it is!" "Look at how its caused entries to go up!"
Well, no it hasn't. Its just stolen entrants from other classes.
Just my opinion of course.

But I'm not worried. At some point these guys will get sick of spending $25K on a friggin Miata to run in 15th place and repair body damage nearly every weekend. This SM craze won't last forever. The big dogs will go national, and regionally the class will likely lose some of its lustre.

I have to agree with Scott. I havent raced my Suzuki Swift in a year now. I will next season since the run group has changed in the sediv. I spent the past year vintage racing instead of SCCA and vintage. Got tired of a shrinking field and qualifying second or third and having to pass 12 sm's to gain a position in class. I think the different run group will help itb and itc grow. I know alot of b and c drivers that had to do bodywork that normally would not have had to. Not saying it was the sm groups fault, but the b and c cars were in the way of their feild. We are racing too but with 4or5 b and c cars, we were in their way. I also see alot of b and c drivers piloting sm thinking it would be cheaper. I also see some of their cars for sale after a year or two. The numbers will go back up, it will just take a year or two. Maybe three with the rising fuel cost. There are still good b and c canidates in my eyes. We just have to think of lesser econo boxes like Suzuki, Kia , Dawoo LOL

[OTLimit]

In Midiv we have 42 drivers signed up in SM. In the IT Tour (so it's misnomer for this class; it's the Sunday regional support race with the national races), 54 different Midiv drivers have participated. That's a lot. But I can only pick out 8-10 names that I easily remember having driven in other classes.

It will be interesting to see how many try to go national next year.

[Catch22]

And gas prices are hurting. Its hurting in terms or workers and racers.

A trip to VIR right now would cost us about $400 in gas. No, we're not going to VIR any time soon.

Our car has been parked since July strictly due to budget (lack of).

[zooracer]

Hey! Another suzuki swift in the mix! Post up when you start racing it. Be neat to have two on track at the same time.

The beauty of IT is the variety of cars in the field and the relatively cheap level of prep (so long as we stop any more "rules creep")

Let the newer cars in and lets see how they do. SCCA needs to cut out some of the red tape on getting a new car classified. Be more flexible and reactive. It is just good business sense.

The more cars classed, the better off IT will be. Gives younger generations more choices. Then just adjust with weight.

This isnt any more complicated then you want to make it

[specialtyautomo]

Been racing it since 2000. Finished 10 in sarrc points 2002 with only 5 races. I also own Talor Robertsons old swift after he crashed it at the arrc 03. Had some good races with that car @ road atlanta when it wans't on its roof.

[zracre]

The new beetle is classed, doesnt that make the same platform golf with the same engine classed as well?? I have raced all the IT classes at one time or another as well as a race in a SM...the appeal to build a low budget racer is appealing to anyone wanting to get into road racing...I think it would be great for Grassroots Motorsports, or Sportscar Magazine to do an article on building a bare bones safe legal ITC car to boost numbers...I am always toying with ideas for new race cars as donors are cheap and easy to find in south florida.

[Catch22]

You don't even have to go "bare bones" to build a cheap ITC car.

You can build a safe front runner easily for less than $10K.

[Geo]

Originally posted by zooracer@Oct 16 2005, 10:36 PM

Let the newer cars in and lets see how they do. SCCA needs to cut out some of the red tape on getting a new car classified. Be more flexible and reactive. It is just good business sense.

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What red tape?

[zracre]

Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 16 2005, 08:06 PM
You don't even have to go "bare bones" to build a cheap ITC car.

You can build a safe front runner easily for less than $10K.

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I was thinking less than that...obviously start with a Honda Civic std :119: as they are really inexpensive on ebay and relatively easy to find and do a basic build up w/o rebuilding the motor initially...

[zooracer]

"One issue is that a VTS sheet needs to be filled out for a new car to be classed - and it's a decent amount of work for potentially no reward as you don't know if anyone will build one."

I said red tape after reading this...

anyhoo, I thinks its obvious that the larger the pool of eligible cars, the better the chances of someone new to SCCA seeing something they want to race. I mean, imagine my surprise when I saw Suzuki Swift GTI's (which are really rare) in the ITB section of the GCR. My dad just happened to have two with blown motors in his backyard. I had autocrossed one several years back, and thougt it would make a fun ITB car.
A lot of young guys getting in this will maybe have a specific car they like, or happen to own, and will want to campaign it. If it isnt classed, or is way outclassed, then they may go to NASA or something.
Classing is really pretty simple I think. And you can always adjust with weight later if need be...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by zooracer@Oct 16 2005, 10:35 PM
"One issue is that a VTS sheet needs to be filled out for a new car to be classed - and it's a decent amount of work for potentially no reward as you don't know if anyone will build one."

I said red tape after reading this...

anyhoo, I thinks its obvious that the larger the pool of eligible cars, the better the chances of someone new to SCCA seeing something they want to race. I mean, imagine my surprise when I saw Suzuki Swift GTI's (which are really rare) in the ITB section of the GCR. My dad just happened to have two with blown motors in his backyard. I had autocrossed one several years back, and thougt it would make a fun ITB car.
A lot of young guys getting in this will maybe have a specific car they like, or happen to own, and will want to campaign it. If it isnt classed, or is way outclassed, then they may go to NASA or something.
Classing is really pretty simple I think. And you can always adjust with weight later if need be...

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Ahhh. that ASSUME word...

It would be a lot of work for US to do it, PROACTIVELY. Members who are interested in getting a car classed typically are ready to build one and have the info available to complete the forms. We would have to:

Pick the cars
Fill out the forms
Class the cars
Hope for subscription

When a member goes through the process on thier own, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

AB

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by zracre@Oct 16 2005, 07:28 PM
The new beetle is classed, doesnt that make the same platform golf with the same engine classed as well??

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Unfortunately not.

[JLawton]

I also think it would help if there was an easy transition from T 3/4 to IT. I think you would also see the touring classes get bigger as well. That 10 year limit with nowhere to go after would make me think twice. I don't have the money to buy a brand new car then build it into a touring car. I would consider a 5-8 year old car if I new it would have a home after.

But come up to the Northeast, plenty of IT cars up here!!

[Bill Miller]

I agree with you Jeff, there should almost be a defined IT class, for the new T/SS cars that get classed. While T/SS cars have a maximum ten-year lifespan, you can race some of them in IT, when they are only five years old. I'll have to go back and look at the cars classed in T3, but from what I remember, there were several that were probably outside the performance envelope of ITS. And once SSB/C become T3/4, I'd like to see T5 added. Be a place to race the Scion xA's of the world, not to mention, be a natural feeder for ITB. To me, these are the kinds of things that the SCCA's strategic plan, for Club Racing, should address. BTW, anybody have any idea what the status of the Strategic Plan is? Been over 2 years now, and we haven't really seen much of anything, except the original PowerPoint presentation.

[Geo]

Originally posted by zooracer@Oct 17 2005, 02:35 AM
"One issue is that a VTS sheet needs to be filled out for a new car to be classed - and it's a decent amount of work for potentially no reward as you don't know if anyone will build one."

I said red tape after reading this...

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That is red tape?

You've got to be kidding.

Do you just expect the ITAC/CRB/BOD to know everything about every car? Some of this information is vital to get a car classed/weighted properly. Not always, but sometimes. The VTS is not terribly complicated and anyone with an FSM should be able to fill one out reasonably quickly.

[cherokee]

[quote]

In the Southeast I think it is Spec Miata.

I know alot of b and c drivers that had to do bodywork that normally would not have had to.

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That would be me, the SM that hit me ran over 3 other cars in the same race, two IT cars and one other SM. The only reason that I am putting the Opel back on the track next year is I will not have to run with those.....people. I personally think they should have run the SM with AS, let them bounce of a 4000 pound Firebird a couple times and their driving habits would change. It also does not matter how fast you are, when I ran my MR2 I had more then one close call with a Miata, started at my school when 2 went into the wall and 4 had a big get to gether at the start of our sunday race. Someone please explain the thinking of these people when they get behind the wheel, it almost looks like road rage to me.


But I think FWIW, class new cars, I know that my old 1972 car will not be top dog forever, but as long as I can get it out there and the car is legal let the car run. But I think that the old B&C cars are going to be out classed by any thing made in the last few years, just the way it is.

[zooracer]

From everything I've read on here, it is difficult to get a new car classed, or classed competitively, No?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by zooracer@Oct 17 2005, 11:12 AM
From everything I've read on here, it is difficult to get a new car classed, or classed competitively, No?

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No.

AB

[Knestis]

Having done a classification request in recent memory - two years ago - I can say that the process is OK. I had to get permission from Topeka (J. Thoennes) to leave a bunch of the VTS slots blank, since I didn't have/couldn't find the necessary info (windshield layback angle???) but, not too bad.

Once the forms were in, it got reviewed and approved in a resonable time.

The problem is NOT there, however. It's simply that CURRENT racers are not likely to go to a bunch of trouble to attract more competition against themselves in different (and perhaps newer, higher-tech, more threatening) makes and models. NEW potential racers don't know how to go about it, or even that they are allowed to request new listings.

There are disincentives to growth of the classes here, in terms of getting new cars - and therefore new people? - into the IT classes. In the name of "being reponsive" or being "member driven," a big piece of what should be strategic thinking for the future of the category is neglected.

I know that the ITAC won't know everything about every car but isn't it possible that someone should be looking at the big picture?

K

[Catch22]

Originally posted by zracre@Oct 17 2005, 01:55 AM
I was thinking less than that...obviously start with a Honda Civic std :119: as they are really inexpensive on ebay and relatively easy to find and do a basic build up w/o rebuilding the motor initially...

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Don't assume that.
I love my car, but I spent a good bit more than I'd planned to make it competitive. The tranny in this thing is just A W F U L. If you want to be competitive, you MUST do a final drive ($900) and LSD ($650 and up) and get as much power as you can out of the motor in order to overcome the horrendous gearing ($$$$$$). A really good suspension (I have custom valved Konis) also helps as it gets you more corner speed.
Basically, its a two speed car. We drive it using nothing but 3rd and 4th gear. Yes, thats a real challenge.

You can go just as fast in a 85 to 87 CRX/Civic for alot less money and effort. If I had to do it all over again thats what I'd build.

Scott, who bit off more than he'd planned to chew when he chose the Standard.

PS - There IS a cheap way to run up front in a Standard. All you have to do is bolt up a stock transmission from a CRX Si. That'll only cost you about $200... If you choose to do things that way (and some people do )