first gen rx7 ITS cars

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 5 2005, 08:26 AM
***2600 pounds in ITB***

***What about at 13*6? ( ITB Spec)***

Why should the ITA cars be required to spend to move to ITB ? Ya want to buy my 8 Panasports ? Approx $1,600 new..........

Why should we be required to try & stop a 2600 (is 2380 now) pound car with what are at this time questional brakes on the 12A ?

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David,

You like the ITA option at a lower weight but in order to FIT into ITB, you have to weigh more and downsize the wheels. Dems Da breaks.

AB

[ITS5GB]

Andy, I like the 13b 2350# option. I still run a 1st gen ITS car here in the Midwest. I run it mostly at Waterford Hills, a tight 1.5 mile track. At one time the car, when owned by Dave Deen, held the track record at Watkins Glen on the long course back in '00.
It still does very well at Waterford. Generally runs in the top 5, with 10 to 15 car fields. Finishes in the top 3 about 75% of the time. Mostly 2nd Gen's are the competition with 1 240Z and 1 E36. Track record is 1:16:668 and I have run a personal best 1:17:303. The car runs high 1:32's at Grattan, 1:39's at Gingerman and 1:46's at M-O.
I have contemplated selling, but it's really not worth much with it's current underdog status. I believe I even spoke with you, Andy, a couple years ago about buying a rental? car from you?
At any rate, knocking 180# off sure would help! What do we need to do to make this happen? I've been waiting years to see something relative to the GSL-SE get revised. Guess nobody cared about it in ITS anymore so I didn't ever try to change anything. Thought I might be the only one in the country still trying with one.

[Eagle7]

To add some context to this, the best ITS race lap this year was 1:29.0 at Grattan and 1:37.2 at Gingerman. My car (2nd gen) has been WAY down on power (dynoed at 135 WHP) and my Grattan/Gingerman times have been pretty close to what you posted.

Originally posted by ITS5GB@Nov 5 2005, 10:34 AM
Andy, I like the 13b 2350# option. I still run a 1st gen ITS car here in the Midwest. I run it mostly at Waterford Hills, a tight 1.5 mile track. At one time the car, when owned by Dave Deen, held the track record at Watkins Glen on the long course back in '00.
It still does very well at Waterford. Generally runs in the top 5, with 10 to 15 car fields. Finishes in the top 3 about 75% of the time. Mostly 2nd Gen's are the competition with 1 240Z and 1 E36. Track record is 1:16:668 and I have run a personal best 1:17:303. The car runs high 1:32's at Grattan, 1:39's at Gingerman and 1:46's at M-O.
I have contemplated selling, but it's really not worth much with it's current underdog status. I believe I even spoke with you, Andy, a couple years ago about buying a rental? car from you?
At any rate, knocking 180# off sure would help! What do we need to do to make this happen? I've been waiting years to see something relative to the GSL-SE get revised. Guess nobody cared about it in ITS anymore so I didn't ever try to change anything. Thought I might be the only one in the country still trying with one.

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[ITS5GB]

I'm looking forward to running Grattan again next year Marty. Didn't make it this year. If you recall, I broke a spindle last year on Saturday and still made Sunday. Grattan is definitely a lot of fun.....probably my favorite track....love the jump and the toilet bowl!

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 5 2005, 05:26 AM
***2600 pounds in ITB***

***What about at 13*6? ( ITB Spec)***

Why should the ITA cars be required to spend to move to ITB ? Ya want to buy my 8 Panasports ? Approx $1,600 new..........

Why should we be required to try & stop a 2600 (is 2380 now) pound car with what are at this time questional brakes on the 12A ?

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I was going down Andy's path, that they would not let us move to ITB without the appropriately sized wheels and tires.

I'm not sure I can drop another hundred pounds out of the ITA car, but I bet it's there...


Marcus

[bldn10]

"There is an ITS first gen in KC that is a highly developed car. It is being used to test EP suspension pieces and will serve as an EP backup car when necessary. It is owned/driven by Charlie Clark of KC Raceware."

Scott, either Charlie doesn't have that car close to fully developed yet or it is proof that the 1st gen. is not competitive in ITS. At St. Louis last weekend he finished 10th out of 13 on Sat. and 8th on Sun. His best time was a 1:15.853 in the race on Sun. when the fastest ITS lap was 1:11.432 in a Nissan 200SX. I was the fastest 2nd gen. at 1:12.512 but I did a 1:11.406 Sat.

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Oct 13 2005, 02:40 AM
wel, thats very true...the weight is too high on the 1st gen to overcome the issues, and I think the 14" wheels are a deficit.

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I don't think wheels are an issue... They can run "up to 15" wheels...

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Banzai240@Nov 5 2005, 11:58 AM
I don't think wheels are an issue... They can run "up to 15" wheels...

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But...I think that ends up HURTING the car, because, due to the 7s suspension geometry, and such, handling suffers the higher up it is. I should recheck the available sizes, but when i researched hte wheel issue for the ITA car, I was clearly a step back performance-wsie to go from the 13" to 14" or 15" wheels. Also, gearing becomes an issue, as these motors are VERY different than the later S5 motors.

The brakes ARE better, but the car is still a weird watts linkaged live rear axle, and strut based front with a drag link. THe 2nd gen is FAR better suspension-wise, nd power wise as well.

[ddewhurst]

***Dems Da breaks.***

Andy, options my man, options is key to racing..................

My car may in the future have a class designation on the side with words that say.

EP non-ported/non-trans

Per what other CenDiv 1st gen RX-7 "X" ITA racers are doing. We may be cheap E cars that can't win but we still can have fun racing other Prod cars. Ya don't need to have all the E "stuff" to qualify within the rules. Some us understand that we will never win within "any" class that has great cars with great drivers.

Another option the ITAC has is to leave the current cars alone as classed, let current classed cars get re-classed or stay in their current class & use your crystal ball process on newly classed cars. Please don&#39;t tell me about ALL the spectators <_< that will be confused. I understand the ITAC process is in the hands of the CRB, BUT just maybe the ITAC didn&#39;t look at all the options. As IT numbers are falling & my bet is ya all don&#39;t have facts on why the IT numbers are falling you may pi$$ more people off & more people may jump to Prod racing or quit racing.

I look forward to viewing the results three years from the inception date of the ITAC re-classing of current cars & new cars as the come.

[hare_ITC]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 5 2005, 12:50 PM
But...I think that ends up HURTING the car, because, due to the 7s suspension geometry, and such, handling suffers the higher up it is. I should recheck the available sizes, but when i researched hte wheel issue for the ITA car, I was clearly a step back performance-wsie to go from the 13" to 14" or 15" wheels. Also, gearing becomes an issue, as these motors are VERY different than the later S5 motors.

The brakes ARE better, but the car is still a weird watts linkaged live rear axle, and strut based front with a drag link. THe 2nd gen is FAR better suspension-wise, nd power wise as well.

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Magic can be done with a tri-link setup. As far as larger tires/wheels. You can compensate with the 4.88 ratio that most everyone runs, or even 5.12 if you really want. Most of the EP guys we&#39;ve ran against are on 15&#39;s anyways. Yes we&#39;re still racing the torqueless wonder called the 12A too.

[ddewhurst]

Before we throw out the 1st gen RX-7 suspension lets look E Production LP cars of Tom Thrash & Bob Neal at the Runoffs. They do get the job done.

After the 1st gen is dumped in ITB it would be fun to see the two of them along with Rick Thompson & a couple other top shoes race in ITB.

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 6 2005, 07:53 PM
Before we throw out the 1st gen RX-7 suspension lets look E Production LP cars of Tom Thrash & Bob Neal at the Runoffs. They do get the job done.

After the 1st gen is dumped in ITB it would be fun to see the two of them along with Rick Thompson & a couple other top shoes race in ITB.

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I&#39;m not certain but I think Ricky Thompson is racing his RX7 in ITA next year. He just won the ITA race at VIR last weekend if I am not mistaken and there were some fast ITA cars there. Put the 1st Gen RX7 in B and I think Ricky and the other 7 drivers will walk the field.

[ddewhurst]

Ron, if my post came of negative that was not the intent. I would suspect that Tom, Bob, Rick & some other top dogs would kick some serious a$$ with the 1st gen RX-7 in ITB. Whale weight, 6 inch rims & all.

I presum all cars are legal untill they are protested & found illegal.

[mustanghammer]

Originally posted by bldn10@Nov 5 2005, 03:43 PM
"There is an ITS first gen in KC that is a highly developed car. It is being used to test EP suspension pieces and will serve as an EP backup car when necessary. It is owned/driven by Charlie Clark of KC Raceware."

Scott, either Charlie doesn&#39;t have that car close to fully developed yet or it is proof that the 1st gen. is not competitive in ITS. At St. Louis last weekend he finished 10th out of 13 on Sat. and 8th on Sun. His best time was a 1:15.853 in the race on Sun. when the fastest ITS lap was 1:11.432 in a Nissan 200SX. I was the fastest 2nd gen. at 1:12.512 but I did a 1:11.406 Sat.

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That was Charile&#39;s first time out in the car. He was running crapy used SM tires, had a few teething problems with the brakes and is running the OE rear end gear. Give him time, the car will go alot faster. He has a huge inventory of parts!

He and I doubt that this car will ever be a good ITS car but it will be well driven and well prepared so perhaps next year it can be used as a yard stick. For what it is worth, he and I believe that it should go to ITA as is - no weight added. Same with the 12A RX7 - move it to ITB at the same weight (just smaller wheels)

[mustanghammer]

Originally posted by hare_ITC@Nov 6 2005, 02:58 AM
Magic can be done with a tri-link setup. As far as larger tires/wheels. You can compensate with the 4.88 ratio that most everyone runs, or even 5.12 if you really want. Most of the EP guys we&#39;ve ran against are on 15&#39;s anyways. Yes we&#39;re still racing the torqueless wonder called the 12A too.

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I agree, you can get taller strut spacers that only fit 15" wheels and a 5:12 rear end and 23" tire is the same as a 4:88 and a 21-22" tire. As far as the rear suspension is concerned you can ditch the factory watts link in favor of a panhard arrangement - just like ITA/IT7. Running a 23" SM tire on a 15" wheel is not different than running a 205/60x13 on 13" wheel.

[hare_ITC]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Nov 7 2005, 07:40 PM
Ron, if my post came of negative that was not the intent. I would suspect that Tom, Bob, Rick & some other top dogs would kick some serious a$$ with the 1st gen RX-7 in ITB. Whale weight, 6 inch rims & all.

I presum all cars are legal untill they are protested & found illegal.

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that&#39;s ok, re-reading my post I think I came across too defensive. I guess that can happen when you spent the last 2 years dealing with these cars. Let me rephrase that to being the first car you&#39;ve raced/worked on

[bldn10]

Scott, that was part of the reason for my observation: you said it was "a highly developed car" and I knew that could not be the case since Charlie knows RX-7s and knows how to drive. There was a time back in the mid &#39;90s before the S5 motor became prevalent and SpeedSource developed the 2nd gen. and long before the BMW that 1st gen. cars that were very competitive in ITS.