Who Will Win? - ITS

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Nov 11 2005, 12:15 AM
Take a look at the listing in the GCR - see anything wrong? Besides, it's the MB version of the E30 M3...

AB

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It is a DOHC motor instead of a SOHC motor. Ahhhhhhh!

So, there might be a big boo bo here. The Cosworth DOHC 190E might not actually be classed! There were 2.3L four pots that were not Cosworth headed M3 competitors. I don't know if these were SOHC motors or not, that is, the basic ones. If so, then the DOHC 2.3L high powered version is not classed.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by rlearp@Nov 10 2005, 08:49 PM
It is a DOHC motor instead of a SOHC motor. Ahhhhhhh!

So, there might be a big boo bo here. The Cosworth DOHC 190E might not actually be classed! There were 2.3L four pots that were not Cosworth headed M3 competitors. I don't know if these were SOHC motors or not, that is, the basic ones. If so, then the DOHC 2.3L high powered version is not classed.

R

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Not only that but there are NO SPECS in the GCR for brakes, or tranny...holy crap!

This is what we are talking about...no? Click here.

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Nov 11 2005, 01:49 AM
Not only that but there are NO SPECS in the GCR for brakes, or tranny...holy crap!

This is what we are talking about...no? Click here.

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Yep, that is it. But, hell, the GCR has a lot of errors on mine too - no four speed box listed when 95% of all delivered had four speeds, years all wrong (73-75) not 79 as JH had been out of business four years by then. No valve sizes listed and compression wrong. But, I have the right stuff in the manual and don't cheat, I'm sure Mike's is all on the up and up too.

But, that is the car and quite a performer in the day. They are good drivers I understand and pop up from time to time on Ebay fairly cheap. Almost bought one a few months back that was in Virginia for about $5k.

Ron

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by rlearp@Nov 10 2005, 09:59 PM
Almost bought one a few months back that was in Virginia for about $5k.

Ron

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OK, it's time for an intervention.

Sell everything and focus on ONE thing that you can get to run and develop it!



AB

[Bill Miller]

The M-B 190 2.3 16v cars are indeed quick. A guy from Md. ran one in GrandAm Cup, Motorola Cup, and SV-WC for several years. They also used to run them as endurance racers. I was crew chief on one at the last Longest Night at Moroso. We took 3rd in P2 w/ it. Those cars definately had some grunt!!

[mlytle]

congrats to rob "the huffmaster" for his performance at the arrc! qualified well below the track record and within a few HUNDRETHS of a second of the #1 its driver in the country. 1:39.1x.

and then he ran almost the entire race right on chet's bumper. the two cars seemed glued together at the top of the esses, lap after lap. if it wasn't for a lapped car spinning in front of him causing him to lose a second late in the race, it would have been a nose to nose battle for the checker. it was a great race to watch.

nice run rob! it was fun paddocking next to you and your dad. hope you had a safe drive home.

and he wasn't in one of those "overdog" bmw's, it was a mazda....
top 4 cars...bmw, mazda, bmw, 240z.

marshall
spec rx7 #15

[kthomas]

Originally posted by mlytle@Nov 15 2005, 02:07 AM
congrats to rob "the huffmaster" for his performance at the arrc! qualified well below the track record and within a few HUNDRETHS of a second of the #1 its driver in the country. 1:39.1x.

and then he ran almost the entire race right on chet's bumper. the two cars seemed glued together at the top of the esses, lap after lap.

Yes, congrats to "huff" for a great drive. Chet mentioned to me he was a "really good shoe".

Not sure how many of you realize just how good Chet is though- had he driven flat out under pressure from Huff the whole time he would have wasted the tires and Huff would have won. An RX-7 isn't as hard on the rubbers as the BMW. Chet would have been "pacing" his competitors in the twisty bits where they weren't likely to pass in order to save tires whilst getting the normal run out of 5, 7, and 10b to win the straights. In a 20 lap single car time trial the RX-7 wins. That, my friends, is driving savvy.

[dj10]

[quote]
Yes, congrats to "huff" for a great drive. Chet mentioned to me he was a "really good shoe".

What the hell was all the bumping going on at the start of ITS I heard about? LOL by the looks of the cars you would think this was nascar! I had some jerk who qualified behind me jump into my starting position just before the green flag. I guess none of the officials saw or called anything?? Weren't we warned about contact at the drivers meeting? Mostly everyone I met there were class people on and off track, I guess you'll have some no class where ever you go.
dj

[dspillrat]

[quote]

Yes, congrats to "huff" for a great drive. Chet mentioned to me he was a "really good shoe".

What the hell was all the bumping going on at the start of ITS I heard about? LOL by the looks of the cars you would think this was nascar! I had some jerk who qualified behind me jump into my starting position just before the green flag. I guess none of the officials saw or called anything?? Weren't we warned about contact at the drivers meeting? Mostly everyone I met there were class people on and off track, I guess you'll have some no class where ever you go.
dj

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Hi Dan?
I was surprised as well to see the banging on the front row...worried that I would be dodging someones mirror, or worse. Surprised that penalties/warnings weren't handed down....
I haven't really met any "jerks" in ITS...I did notice some confusion behind me right before both "starts".... I'd guess honest mistake on who ever jumped line.

David Spillman..looking for 3rd row start next year ARRC

#48 Red Z.......still in 3rd gear as we speak

[dj10]

Originally posted by dspillrat@Nov 15 2005, 09:45 PM
Hi Dan?
I was surprised as well to see the banging on the front row...worried that I would be dodging someones mirror, or worse. Surprised that penalties/warnings weren't handed down....
I haven't really met any "jerks" in ITS...I did notice some confusion behind me right before both "starts".... I'd guess honest mistake on who ever jumped line.

David Spillman..looking for 3rd row start next year ARRC

#48 Red Z.......still in 3rd gear as we speak

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Dave,
The start of the ITS race is what we use to call in the Marines a "Cluster F***" (both starting laps!!). From my vantage point you would think some of these guys never started a race before.hehe I can laugh about it now, but if a guy doesn't know where his or her starting position is they should be here. I beg to differ with you but the guy who tried to jump into my position was intentional. I pushed my way back into my spot on the 2nd go around.
Damn lucky I'm not an official, you better believe heads would of rolled. Someone should investigate why no penelties weren't called!
Sorry to hear about your gear problem, wondered what happened. I had a bad weekend myself, Trans (not my fault) on Fri and engine (my fault) on Sat.
Dan

[roberthuff24]

Originally posted by mlytle@Nov 14 2005, 09:07 PM
congrats to rob "the huffmaster" for his performance at the arrc! qualified well below the track record and within a few HUNDRETHS of a second of the #1 its driver in the country. 1:39.1x.

and then he ran almost the entire race right on chet's bumper. the two cars seemed glued together at the top of the esses, lap after lap. if it wasn't for a lapped car spinning in front of him causing him to lose a second late in the race, it would have been a nose to nose battle for the checker. it was a great race to watch.

nice run rob! it was fun paddocking next to you and your dad. hope you had a safe drive home.

and he wasn't in one of those "overdog" bmw's, it was a mazda....
top 4 cars...bmw, mazda, bmw, 240z.

marshall
spec rx7 #15

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Thanks Marshall, it was a really fun weekend. i must say Road Atlanta has to be one of my favorite tracks i have raced on yet. all of the elavation through the esses and the down hill to turn 12 was just awesome . it was fun racing with chet, it seemed like the whole week we would find each other on the track, the test day we were running together, then in qualifying i just hooked up with him getting a good draft down the back straight, and then even the hardship practice on saturday we went back and forth. the race was pretty intense, it being my first arrc race i thought i would have been more nervous but suprisingly i was pretty composed, i could get him through 3 and the esses and coming out of 5 but it really wasnt enough to make anything happen before 6. i was just trying to put pressure on chet hoping he would make a mistake but he ran a clean race which was expected. all in all, it was a great experience and i look foward to running next year.

Rob

[robits325is]

Originally posted by roberthuff24@Nov 16 2005, 07:55 PM
Thanks Marshall, it was a really fun weekend. i must say Road Atlanta has to be one of my favorite tracks i have raced on yet. all of the elavation through the esses and the down hill to turn 12 was just awesome . it was fun racing with chet, it seemed like the whole week we would find each other on the track, the test day we were running together, then in qualifying i just hooked up with him getting a good draft down the back straight, and then even the hardship practice on saturday we went back and forth. the race was pretty intense, it being my first arrc race i thought i would have been more nervous but suprisingly i was pretty composed, i could get him through 3 and the esses and coming out of 5 but it really wasnt enough to make anything happen before 6. i was just trying to put pressure on chet hoping he would make a mistake but he ran a clean race which was expected. all in all, it was a great experience and i look foward to running next year.

Rob

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Sounds like it was a great race. I thought the RX-7 wasn't competitive in ITS?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by robits325is@Nov 16 2005, 10:27 PM
Sounds like it was a great race. I thought the RX-7 wasn't competitive in ITS?

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Who said that? Would love to see some quotes.

AB

[roberthuff24]

Originally posted by robits325is@Nov 16 2005, 10:27 PM
Sounds like it was a great race. I thought the RX-7 wasn't competitive in ITS?

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I think the RX-7 is definitly still comptetitive in ITS but i also belive that the BMW's have a slight advantage at a track like Road Atlanta. a BMW should pull up turn one better but a RX-7 should take turn 3 thru turn 5 better. after that turn 6 and 7 are not that different in a RX-7 compared to a BMW and Turn 7 cant be done quickly enough to make up for the torque of a BMW. the BMW will definitly pull down the back staight and should pull up 10b giving a better run thru 12 and down the front straight. but in a long race a RX-7 will defintily hold up and last longer. i've heard they are taking off the restrictor on the BMW's and putting on more weight for next year, and they might put some weight on the RX-7's. should be intersting to see how the scca tries to balance the IT groups. maybe the porches might benifit from the ITS changes, i dont see many of them very competitive in the cendiv anymore(could just be the Cendiv though).

Rob

[its66]

Originally posted by roberthuff24@Nov 17 2005, 07:16 AM
. i've heard they are taking off the restrictor on the BMW's and putting on more weight for next year, and they might put some weight on the RX-7's.
Rob

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Andy B,

Anything you care to tell us, or just a rumor??

[Joe Moser]

Originally posted by roberthuff24@Nov 17 2005, 12:16 AM
I think the RX-7 is definitly still comptetitive in ITS but i also belive that the BMW's have a slight advantage at a track like Road Atlanta. a BMW should pull up turn one better but a RX-7 should take turn 3 thru turn 5 better. after that turn 6 and 7 are not that different in a RX-7 compared to a BMW and Turn 7 cant be done quickly enough to make up for the torque of a BMW. the BMW will definitly pull down the back staight and should pull up 10b giving a better run thru 12 and down the front straight. but in a long race a RX-7 will defintily hold up and last longer. i've heard they are taking off the restrictor on the BMW's and putting on more weight for next year, and they might put some weight on the RX-7's. should be intersting to see how the scca tries to balance the IT groups. maybe the porches might benifit from the ITS changes, i dont see many of them very competitive in the cendiv anymore(could just be the Cendiv though).

Rob

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Rob,

Congrats on the 2nd place! We'll both have to step it up a little next year and bring back two W's to Detroit

I watched Rob's race tape from the ARRC race, and I'm not sure that the RX-7 is quite competitive with the BMW... It made me frustrated just watching the tape, Rob would push everything possible out of that 7, only to get to the back straight and watch the BMW pull 5-10 car lengths on him! Lap after Lap after Lap. It was definitely the closest thing I've seen to a 7 keeping up with the BMW though, and I think I may just have to give the nod to Rob's driving for making that happen... Only 19 years old and already climbing the ranks. Rob, you should make that tape available to the ITAC... 2 great drivers (Chet HAS to be one of the best at Road Atlanta), and 2 top level cars. The tape should show exactly how they compare to each other within the current rules/specs.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by Joe Moser@Nov 17 2005, 03:09 PM
Rob,

Congrats on the 2nd place! We'll both have to step it up a little next year and bring back two W's to Detroit

I watched Rob's race tape from the ARRC race, and I'm not sure that the RX-7 is quite competitive with the BMW... It made me frustrated just watching the tape, Rob would push everything possible out of that 7, only to get to the back straight and watch the BMW pull 5-10 car lengths on him! Lap after Lap after Lap. It was definitely the closest thing I've seen to a 7 keeping up with the BMW though, and I think I may just have to give the nod to Rob's driving for making that happen... Only 19 years old and already climbing the ranks. Rob, you should make that tape available to the ITAC... 2 great drivers (Chet HAS to be one of the best at Road Atlanta), and 2 top level cars. The tape should show exactly how they compare to each other within the current rules/specs.

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any lead the bmw had on the back straight was completely erased by the mazda by the time they got to turn 5. i could rewrite your para to show the bmw driver being frustrated by the superior handling of the mazda. yes, show that tape to the itac. it is great evidence that the "bmw is an overdog" concept is fantasy.

rob had a great, no, an outstanding, drive, but lets face it. here we had an excellent young driver in a mazda WHO HAD NEVER DRIVEN AT RA BEFORE and who had only raced an its car for three weekends, keeping pace with a multi-time arrc champ who knows ra cold and has been driving bmw's for years. if that car hadn't spun in front of him, rob could have very well won. and that was on a horsepower track. bmw an overdog? i think not.

[roberthuff24]

Originally posted by mlytle@Nov 17 2005, 06:46 PM
any lead the bmw had on the back straight was completely erased by the mazda by the time they got to turn 5. i could rewrite your para to show the bmw driver being frustrated by the superior handling of the mazda. yes, show that tape to the itac. it is great evidence that the "bmw is an overdog" concept is fantasy.

rob had a great, no, an outstanding, drive, but lets face it. here we had an excellent young driver in a mazda WHO HAD NEVER DRIVEN AT RA BEFORE and who had only raced an its car for three weekends, keeping pace with a multi-time arrc champ who knows ra cold and has been driving bmw's for years. if that car hadn't spun in front of him, rob could have very well won. and that was on a horsepower track. bmw an overdog? i think not.

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Yes i agree that the mazda has better handling than the BMW but it really is not as much as it seems, the beamers are much more dialed than they used to be(which is one of the reasons they put a restrictor on for this year) chet mentioned having problems downshifting to third gear in turn 3 which ruined his run into the esses, the one turn the RX-7 could take a lot faster was turn 5 but the BMW would torque out of the turn so it was really never a good enough run to make anything happen before turn 6. And i rarely hear people complain that a car holds them up down the straight aways and kills them in the turn, the real problem is the other way around. there are a lot of factors when you compare the RX-7 to the BMW, the RX-7 is better on brakes and tires favoring a long race, the BMW has more torque and power, the mazda had a slight advantage in handling. it will be interesting to see what kind changes are made, i'm sure glad i dont have to be making the decisions. i will probally send in my tape and they can look at it how they want to.

Rob

[lateapex911]

Yes, please do, it would be most educational...

[Beavis mode: ON]
heh heh heh..an in car race tape from a great race,...can't wait..order pizza, heh heh.....

[Beavis mode: OFF]

[mlytle]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 18 2005, 03:34 AM
Yes, please do, it would be most educational...

[Beavis mode: ON]
heh heh heh..an in car race tape from a great race,...can't wait..order pizza, heh heh.....

[Beavis mode: OFF]

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now we are talking some winter entertainment!

hey rob, can't wait to watch you kick some butt in the pro miata series next summer!!!!!