National championship or ARRC championship

[bg43wex]

I spent last week attending the Run Off's at Mid Ohio. I worked for my region, helped crew for a friend and was a spectator.

This was the first time I had been to this event and thought it was cool. from an SCCA members point of view this is the Super Bowl, they really put on a great show from every aspect.

Long test and qualifying sessions, open meetings with the National CRB, parties every night a manufacturers midway and more stewards and volunteers than you can shake a stick at. let's not forget cheap $300.00 entry.

Even the small classes had close to 30 cars. One thing I did notice is the age of many production cars, some were competing in their 30th championship. While I was attending a CRB meeting I listened while many drivers who have these older cars complained about their inability to locate parts. I was told they build them so tight they don’t last, which caused me think why do we allow rules creep or make new rules just so the same cars can have all the fun?

How can the SCCA call this event their "National championship" when they exclude roughly 50% ( probably more) of the regular competitors in their club?

The Regional events that you compete in deliver the lions share of all revenue to your club, while most Nationals hover around even or some loose money.

Next year SM will be included in Topeka for the 06 Run Off’s. As we all know this class has exploded on to the scene in the last few years and helped increase entry levels at regional races. Participation levels in IT have also grown continually for the last few years, not at the level of SM but still a respectable level.

My question to all of you, if you could have the opportunity to head west and compete against the very best in the country would you?

I know the ARRC is supposed to be the equal but I have been there and it is not. Nothing against that event, I just think the distance from the west coast make it an easy decision for them to skip the event, so is it really the American Road Racing Championship?

Without getting into how we could make it happen let's hear what you think?

Brian Mushnick
Club Racing Chairman
NER
[email protected]

[racer14itc]

Brian,

Don't forget to add the "rest of the questions":

part b )

"How many of you would be interested in racing only ONCE (maybe twice) at your favorite/local/home track each year and travel to 4 or 5 other tracks during the season to collect enough national points to qualify for the Runoffs"?

For those that are curious about national racing, look at your division's schedule for the year for the national races. That's when/where you'd have to travel and race to collect points. It's harder to make money on a national race vs. a regional race because your "customers" typically have to come from further away than a local regional. And there are fewer folks willing to commit to a season of national points gathering, when it's so easy to drive a short distance to the same track for several regionals a year (WDCR is a good example of this). In some large divisions (like SEDIV) the tracks are scattered from southern VA to Miami, FL!

part c)

"Then once you've qualified, how many of you would be interested in towing to Topeka, spending at least a week (or more) of vacation time to participate?"


If you live in the NE or SE, this is going to be FOUR days of travel, plus the week long festivities. It's a COMMITMENT, folks. Oh and I budgeted $2000 this year for travel expenses ($3/gal @ 8mpg adds up!), hotel room, food, souvenirs, etc. That doesn't include my RACECAR expenses (tires, race gas, etc.).

So when you see those "old" cars racing at the Runoffs, remember that irrespective of the car itself, just getting there is a commitment during the year that is larger than a lot of people give credit for.

When you look at the ARRC this year, look at how many out of division IT cars are left once you subtract the SEDIV (local) racers. And it's a race that requires no "qualifying" to enter, simply pay your money and show up.

Just some thoughts on national championship racing vs. regional racing. I've done both, been there and got the t-shirts from both.

MC

[RSTPerformance]

Marc-

I would say both events are very different, however I would argue that winning an IT race at the ARRC is probably harder than winning most of the races at the National Runoffs. Been to both a got the t-shirst also (oh wait I didn't they cost as much as a tank of gas ) But then again their are a lot of other classes besides the IT classes at the ARRc, we just forget about them

Anyway I replied to the ARRC vs' National Runoofs question in the other post... the biggest difference is the media coverage, if the ARRC had the media coverage I think it would bring it up another notch to be able to compete against the National Runoffs.

Actually that and we would need to get a few more open wheel races to attend(oops did I say that??? but it is true, it adds to the event somehow... still trying to figure it out)

Raymond

[lateapex911]

My response in the general section:

I haven't seen this years participation numbers, but as it its the last at Mid Ohio, they are sure to be up.

That said, some National classes have historically and consistantly put on terrible races. 17 car fields, 10 second grid spreads, and not even to the really slow guy. It is hard for me to respect a "National Chamionship" when all you have to do is run a few half distance races and show up. Some guys go home bragging about a "Top Ten" Runoffs finish. Out of 17 cars and half didn't finish! LOL..

If you ask me, it does seem like the Regional Racers spend the most and get the least.

And if I were King, I would shorten the event. It's too long and Speed can only tolerate so much, LOL...

I would make all the "National" regional classes eligible, and the top subscribed 21 go to the show. Details could be worked out, a cut off date created. IT would need to have certain cars with documentation issues excluded, but over all it would be a huge boost to the overall program.

I think the racing would be dramatically improved, (full fields of guys that actually WORKED to get there, LOL) which means TV would be SO much better, and therefor marketing and recruiting would improve.

I have always wondered why the SCCA doesn't market IT, as it such a great category for the wanna be racer to get introduced to and hooked on.

They've missed the boat on this for years. What 20 something gives a rats ass about a Sprite? (OK, name 2 then... )


On the ease of winning the IT races at ther ARRCs vs theRunoffs...I don't think the ARRCs are easeier or harder...but I think a top 5 in Ohio is easier in a few classes....

[16v]

I dunno Jake. I didn't watch *every* race, but for the many that I did stand at the wall for I'd have to say they were the best crash 'em up, fender rubbing, walk the other guy off into the grass stuff I've seen since Cheap Date

But seriously, the Prod races were sensational from a viewers perspective. I think that when you see the broadcasts you'll all agree.

[ulfelder]

My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[Greg Amy]

My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Ditto. - GA

[gsbaker]

So when's the broadcast?

[JIgou]

Sun., Nov. 13 1 p.m. H Production
Sun., Nov. 13 2 p.m. C Sports Racing
Sun., Nov. 20 1 p.m. Showroom Stock B
Sun., Nov. 20 2 p.m. Sports 2000
Sat., Nov. 26 1 p.m. GT-Lite
Sat., Nov. 26 2 p.m. Touring 1
Sun., Nov. 27 1 p.m. G Production
Sun., Nov. 27 2 p.m. Formula Atlantic
Sat., Dec. 3 1 p.m. Formula 500
Sat., Dec. 3 2 p.m. Touring 2
Sun., Dec. 4 1 p.m. Formula Mazda
Sun., Dec. 4 2 p.m. American Sedan
Sat., Dec. 10 1 p.m. Formula Continental
Sat., Dec. 10 2 p.m. D Sports Racing
Sun., Dec. 11 1 p.m. E Production
Sun., Dec. 11 2 p.m. GT-1
Sat., Dec. 17 1 p.m. Showroom Stock C
Sat., Dec. 17 2 p.m. Formula Vee
Sun., Dec. 18 1 p.m. F Production
Sun., Dec. 18 2 p.m. GT-3
Sat., Dec. 24 1 p.m. Formula Ford
Sat., Dec. 24 2 p.m. Spec Racer Ford
Sun., Jan. 1 1 p.m. GT-2

Jarrod

[gsbaker]

[jmark]

Doug is right. The EP race was wild.

[DMaynard]

Originally posted by ulfelder@Sep 29 2005, 07:03 AM
My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[snapback]61418[/snapback]

You get our vote too!! If IT were at the Runoffs, we would definately want to go and compete.

[zracre]

[quote]
My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

You could count me in too!!! But can you imagine how expensive IT would become??? People are bitching about 50k BMW's...My integra is expensive enough and to run it on a national level the costs would go through the roof!!! I can bet that SM engine builders see going national as a good thing...maybe moving the ARRC to mid ohio,or just leave it at RA and give us more coverage (tv) and make a participation minimum of 4 (or insert your number here) races to qualify...just a thought...the ARRC is a well run, fun to watch event...much like the runoffs.

[racer14itc]

[quote]

My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

You could count me in too!!! But can you imagine how expensive IT would become??? People are bitching about 50k BMW's...My integra is expensive enough and to run it on a national level the costs would go through the roof!!! I can bet that SM engine builders see going national as a good thing...maybe moving the ARRC to mid ohio,or just leave it at RA and give us more coverage (tv) and make a participation minimum of 4 (or insert your number here) races to qualify...just a thought...the ARRC is a well run, fun to watch event...much like the runoffs.

[snapback]61475[/snapback]

Evan,

I'm curious if you'd be as excited about going to the Runoffs if you knew in order to qualify for the Runoffs you'd have to tow all over the SEDIV JUST to make the Runoffs? Because *if* ITA was a national class, you can bet there'd be people coming out of the woodwork to try finish in the top 10 in the division and qualify for a Runoffs race in ITA. So you'd have to tow to Homestead, Sebring, Kershaw, Road Atlanta, Roebling, Daytona, Road Atlanta, Roebling and then VIR. Add up those miles from your house, the entry fees for (10) races, the tires, expenses, etc. Just to try and qualify.

That is EXACTLY what the Spec Miata guys are going to find out real fast next season. The idea of running nationals and going to the Runoffs is indeed glamorous but the reality of it will sink in VERY quickly to a lot of drivers. Guys like Buras, Pombo, Evans, etc., are willing to commit to all 10 races to qualify.

Oh yeah, and then you'd get to tow to Topeka for a week long race.

Just trying to put it into perspective for someone from the SEDIV.

The commitment to running the ARRC each year isn't the same thing. It's a good race to be sure, but it's not the same as the Runoffs.

MC

[zracre]

id do it....if I took out some regionals this year, I could have done that scedule...4 races in your division...sebring daytona road atlanta roebling i did this year (roebling next week)...some twice. an extra few hours to vir? same as road atlanta with an extra stop or 2...and im giving participation in 4 events to be sure its at least an event with experience...double sarrc races can count too!!

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by zracre@Sep 29 2005, 09:18 PM
id do it....if I took out some regionals this year, I could have done that scedule...4 races in your division...sebring daytona road atlanta roebling i did this year (roebling next week)...some twice. an extra few hours to vir? same as road atlanta with an extra stop or 2...and im giving participation in 4 events to be sure its at least an event with experience...double sarrc races can count too!!

[snapback]61483[/snapback]

Evan, I tip my mug to you! You're obviously made of the right stuff!

Good luck at the ARRC this year. I may even come down to watch my old friends battle it out in ITC.

MC

[dickita15]

while I think a real national championship race for IT would be great fun and would think it would be cool to run nationals and go to the runnoffs I know there is no way I could do it in IT were in national. it would not take 4 races it would take 10 podium finishes out of 10 to get an invite.
with the money time and talent i have available i would have to run a less popular class to get invited.
how many of you would be in the top 6 (or even 10) in your division.

[gsbaker]

I don't know Mark, you made it look pretty easy.

[gran racing]

In theory it sounds good. My biggest concern would be how it would impact IT as a whole in terms of the financial investment to be a front running car. Would people that were spending $$$$ for a National car then move to ITX? Maybe; actually probably. The t.v. coverage would be really cool and help sponsorship opportunities (more money being thrown in to make things more costly).

Would I attend? Maybe once. Then again I say that I'll only go to the ARRC once because of the tow. We'll see what happens next year.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by gran racing@Sep 29 2005, 07:39 PM
In theory it sounds good. My biggest concern would be how it would impact IT as a whole in terms of the financial investment to be a front running car. Would people that were spending $$$$ for a National car then move to ITX? Maybe; actually probably. The t.v. coverage would be really cool and help sponsorship opportunities (more money being thrown in to make things more costly).

Would I attend? Maybe once. Then again I say that I'll only go to the ARRC once because of the tow. We'll see what happens next year.

[snapback]61496[/snapback]

I think you would be surprised to know what each of the top 5 cars in each class cost at the ARRC, especially in ITS and ITA.

I think there are more $40K+ cars out there than you would imagine. Maybe not in initial build dollars, but if you want track records and checkered flags, you can NEVER be satisfied.

AB