Porsche 944S

[Geo]

Actually Joe, about the only things we can do in IT that you cannot do legally are:

1) Cold Air Intake - but since nobody makes an effective one or has been able to get one to make power to this point, it's a moot point.

2) Port matching - not worth much hp.

3) Increase CR a half point - good for about 3-5 hp tops.

4) Alternate engine management within the stock ECU box - but so far there is nothing that fits that would work wtih the stock wiring harness so this is also a moot point.

In the end, the only that really keeps your cars from making more hp is people willing to spend the dough. You can do all the little things Jon does that makes hp and I have no doubt he could build a legal engine for Spec 944 that would make within 5-6 of what his IT engines make.

[latebrake]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 14 2005, 02:13 PM
Actually Joe, about the only things we can do in IT that you cannot do legally are:

1) Cold Air Intake - but since nobody makes an effective one or has been able to get one to make power to this point, it's a moot point.

2) Port matching - not worth much hp.

3) Increase CR a half point - good for about 3-5 hp tops.

4) Alternate engine management within the stock ECU box - but so far there is nothing that fits that would work wtih the stock wiring harness so this is also a moot point.

In the end, the only that really keeps your cars from making more hp is people willing to spend the dough. You can do all the little things Jon does that makes hp and I have no doubt he could build a legal engine for Spec 944 that would make within 5-6 of what his IT engines make.

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I picked up a 1987 924S just to drive to work or DE days with PCA. 25+mpg to drive to work was the big interest. I have a Millege engine I tried to sell here and it just may find its way into the car one way or the other. I dont think you can get much more than fun in IT with the 2.5 engine so the NASA cup is going to keep most of that crowd. The 944S may keep up better but still not a front runner if the BMW is around with a skilled driver. Lots of others as well. Enduro racing is the 944's cup of tea anyway. A good turbo car can turn out a good performance in that kind of racing.

lawrence

[Geo]

Originally posted by latebrake@Nov 14 2005, 11:22 AM
I picked up a 1987 924S just to drive to work or DE days with PCA. 25+mpg to drive to work was the big interest. I have a Millege engine I tried to sell here and it just may find its way into the car one way or the other. I dont think you can get much more than fun in IT with the 2.5 engine so the NASA cup is going to keep most of that crowd.

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Stay tuned. That may change.

[944-spec#94]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 14 2005, 11:13 AM
You can do all the little things Jon does that makes hp and I have no doubt he could build a legal engine for Spec 944 that would make within 5-6 of what his IT engines make.

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Well try that and I am sure we will change the rules to stop it SOMEHOW.

I know we have gone on about this, but one goal of 944 spec is to run simple stock motors. So far all have kept to that even though some have tried to push the edges. I still have not seen spec car make milledge numbers on the track. (and I hope I never will).

That does not belong in our class.. :P

It is one the big things that seperates 944 spec cars from IT cars.

IT Expects full tilt motors to the limits.

944-spec expects and wants junkyard motors to run strong and will do things to keep it that way.

[latebrake]

Originally posted by 944-spec#94@Nov 14 2005, 06:14 PM
Well try that and I am sure we will change the rules to stop it SOMEHOW.

I know we have gone on about this, but one goal of 944 spec is to run simple stock motors. So far all have kept to that even though some have tried to push the edges. I still have not seen spec car make milledge numbers on the track. (and I hope I never will).

That does not belong in our class.. :P

It is one the big things that seperates 944 spec cars from IT cars.

IT Expects full tilt motors to the limits.

944-spec expects and wants junkyard motors to run strong and will do things to keep it that way.

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The 944 came with 9.5 to 10.9 pistons during its life. Is the 10.9 legal in ITS? I was just wondering because I have a production engine with 10.9 pistons. All I have to do is change the head to legal ITS and install the balance shafts and BANG I have an ITS engine again. Right/wrong?

Lawrence

[Geo]

Originally posted by latebrake@Nov 14 2005, 03:51 PM
The 944 came with 9.5 to 10.9 pistons during its life. Is the 10.9 legal in ITS? I was just wondering because I have a production engine with 10.9 pistons. All I have to do is change the head to legal ITS and install the balance shafts and BANG I have an ITS engine again. Right/wrong?

Lawrence

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Actually, the highest compression pistons available in a US delivered car are 10.2:1. As for the rest of your question, I wouldn't have the slightest clue since I don't know what-all you've done to your engine.

[latebrake]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 14 2005, 09:56 PM
Actually, the highest compression pistons available in a US delivered car are 10.2:1. As for the rest of your question, I wouldn't have the slightest clue since I don't know what-all you've done to your engine.

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I had an 88 with 10.2 pistons. The 10.9 are euro pistons. I am sure there was a ton of them imported into the US but dont know what the bench mark for ITS is on this sort of thing. The rest of the engine is stock except for balancing the rods and perp drilling the crank. The 944 runs as a limited prep car in E/P so they dont allow killer mods to the engine. The current engine in my car may make 215hp at the flywheel but that is with a stand alone computer and other tricks. Thanks for the help.

Lawrence.

[Geo]

Originally posted by latebrake@Nov 15 2005, 08:26 AM
I had an 88 with 10.2 pistons. The 10.9 are euro pistons. I am sure there was a ton of them imported into the US but dont know what the bench mark for ITS is on this sort of thing. The rest of the engine is stock except for balancing the rods and perp drilling the crank. The 944 runs as a limited prep car in E/P so they dont allow killer mods to the engine. The current engine in my car may make 215hp at the flywheel but that is with a stand alone computer and other tricks. Thanks for the help.

Lawrence.

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As Joe said, only pistons supplied in US market cars from the factory can be used, thus you are limited to 10.2:1 pistons and an overall CR of 10.7:1 by shaving the head. The crank drilling is illegal. However, I'll bet almost every 944 in IT has it done. So, just an FYI.

I'm not familiar enough with Production to know exactly the differences in the rules, although I started studying it for a little while.

[Geo]

Originally posted by 944-spec#94@Nov 14 2005, 03:14 PM
Well try that and I am sure we will change the rules to stop it SOMEHOW.

I know we have gone on about this, but one goal of 944 spec is to run simple stock motors. So far all have kept to that even though some have tried to push the edges. I still have not seen spec car make milledge numbers on the track. (and I hope I never will).

That does not belong in our class.. :P

It is one the big things that seperates 944 spec cars from IT cars.

IT Expects full tilt motors to the limits.

944-spec expects and wants junkyard motors to run strong and will do things to keep it that way.

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I don't see any possible way to change your rules to disallow it. Jon does not use any non-factory parts. The only things he does for an IT engine that you don't allow is raising the CR and port matching. Oh, and he balances. But, you cannot even stop that. Even in showroom stock racing they balance and blueprint engines by careful part selection.

As much as you like to think otherwise, as I said a long time ago, the only thing keeping your engines from being expensive crate engines is the willingness of the competitors to spend the money. That's it. I'm not dissng your series, but just discussing the realities. There is absolutely nothing you can do through the rules to prevent it.

[944-spec#94]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 14 2005, 06:54 PM
There is absolutely nothing you can do through the rules to prevent it.

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Well... one option we have relates to the engine management. If needed we can with relative ease go to stock computers. Of all cars in our series there are only Two versions of the computers. So we require stock computers and if need be do random swaps from your car to a competitior car 30 min before the race.

With stock computer sending stock fuel in to the motor it is hard gain anything.

That is just one thing.. The there are stock headers we can go to even require stock mufflers. That will limit the exhaust. Hell we can even do AFM swaps from car to car. Don't forget we are limied to stock Fuel Pressure regulators.
All of which can be easily enforce by swapping from car to car to "sealed" factory unit at any time.

Really it sure helps to have limit cars types.

BTW...
the 8valve non turbo 2.5L 944 had 3 piston types.
9.5:1 US spec
10.2:1 US & Euro spec Model year 1988 only
10.6:1 Euro only pistons.
To my knowledge 10.6:1 piston are not legal in IT since they are not a US part.
So you have 10.2:1 and 9.5:1. In our series these pistons don't seem to make and performance differences.

Now a 10.9:1 piston was made, but this was for the 944S the 16valve car. Visuall it has 4 cut outs on top for the valves rather than just 2.
Also I am not sure the 2.7L piston's compression ratio, but it has bigger bore so clearly it wont fit in the 2.5L motor.