Restricted Regional Discussion

[ShelbyRacer]

Andy-

While I don't condone the combination of some groups (which is not your point I know), I do think you're onto something. In fact, I had a thought that might be interesting---

What about running a Restricted Regional on the same weekend that there's a National race in some proximity?

Now I realize that we have worker and official numbers that would be a concern, but I personally see no reason why there couldn't be enough to go around if done correctly. I also understand that scheduling with the tracks can be a problem, too. It's a lot of items to juggle, but this could be an interesting alternative to the Regional vs. Regional situation that can develop at times.

For instance, IIRC, there was a MARRS race and the National at BeaveRun on the same weekend. I do believe the schedule got changed, but that would be a great time to try the RR concept in NeDiv.

Or, what about a RR event in combo with a Race School?

Does NeDiv have any RR events right now?

[mgyip]

Originally posted by ShelbyRacer@Sep 6 2005, 02:15 PM
Oh-my-god... So with that paint scheme, are you going to start wearing "daisy dukes" around the paddock?

[snapback]59723[/snapback]

Don't tell, I already do...

I agree with Matt Rowe that we really need to wait thru the 2006 season to make any large-scale changes. I was as surprised as everyone else that SM only fielded 36 cars given all the talk earlier in the year. However that was before the SSM rules were changed (in mid-stream according to the SM/SSM faithful).

Furthermore, combining classes is a bit of a black art and if the combination of slow and fast wings doesn't work, then (to echo what I've said before), it's time to create verbiage to restrict a class from participation. While the restriction of just one class may not resolve the problem, it would certainly send a strong and clear message to the members that Regions aren't obligated to allow ALL classes to race just b/c they want to. Rather, the Regions need to determine whether they want to cater to all classes, resulting in some groups with very low turnout and other groups that are oversubscribed OR do they want to cater to the classes that have larger turnout, resulting in the restriction of the low turnout classses and greater overall participation.

[Andy Bettencourt]

What SSM rules have changed mid-year? The rules have been stable to the best of my knowledge...

NER does not currently do RR's...and I would prefer that they didn't...but we are litterally teetering on the edge of "consolation races" (which was written into the NER supps this year because of run-group oversubscription) and/or limiting entries.

I don't want through 2006. The proceedures, event logistics and overflow plans need to be in place BEFORE there is a problem. We have been VERY fortunate this year to have been allowed to shuffle run-groups and mix and match as best we can. If we get any bigger, it won't continue to work - and we should be ready.

I think my proposal will ask for 2 RR's in 2006. As an example, maybe the top 20 classes get auto invites, then the next 10 fill out the 1st event...the 2nd event is the top 20 and the last 10 classes...this gives everyone a chance to run a RR at least once in a year.

Bottom line for me:

We need to be ready before the proverbial dam breaks.

AB

[mgyip]

SSM rules didn't change mid-year but our planning meeting was early enough in the calendar year that the pre-season SSM rule changes hadn't been released.

You're spot on that we need a fully functional plan that's ready to roll BEFORE the levee breaks.

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by mgyip@Sep 7 2005, 08:23 PM
SSM rules didn't change mid-year but our planning meeting was early enough in the calendar year that the pre-season SSM rule changes hadn't been released.

I wonder if the "change" that is being discussed is the proposed Roll Cage rule change that got shot down...? IIRC from the NeDiv MiniCon and RoundTable, no changes were approved, unless it was minor stuff that was changes in SM (the SCCA class, not the NeDiv class).

BTW- Interesting item- Check GCR 7.1.4- You can't restrict classes listed in the GCR in favor of those that are additional "local" classes (yes, I know they list the wrong section for Automobiles- it's now Section 17). Also, 7.1.3 discusses combining classes. If you throw FV and F500 in with Wings and Things, you've just gone against a written "recommendation", which means if it ever went to court, the Region *could* be in for increased liability.

Going from memory on this past weekend's numbers, you could've split up Small Bore and gained more room for IT cars. Put GP, HP, and GTL in with SRF, GT3, GTP, SPU, and EP into Big Bore (hey, they do it to EP at National races), and stick FP, SSB, and SSC in with one of the IT classes. This would've allowed the ITA/ITB group to split, which was one of the only full groups. Of course, this is just estimation and hindsight, and of course, Monday-morning-QB is always the easiest position to play...

[mustanghammer]

I haven't seen anyone from MiDiv reply to this thread so I will.

In MidIv National races are run as Regional/National weekends twice a year at five different tracks (10 National races) The Regional is ran on Saturday and the National is ran on Sunday. Every Reg/Nat race I have been to for the last 7-8 years has had a Restricted Regional race on Sunday for IT and SM.

The restricted regional race group always includes all IT classes (S, A, B, C, 7 and E) and SM either mixed together on grid or with a split start between SM and IT. Once or twice this year we have given SM their own group (they qulaify with IT in the AM) if their numbers and the schedule warrants it. In most cases the IT/SM group is the largest for the weekend so we earn our spot.

We never have restricted regionals on Sunday for clars that could run in a National class. For example, I have never seen a restricted regional for Club Formula Ford for example. A class like this is recognized in the Saturday Regional race but on Sunday they run, if they enter, with the rest of the FF's.

There are some classes and cars that are excluded as a result like Legends, Baby Grands, ASR, Super Production, etc. That's life.

[ShelbyRacer]

Hmmm, I just had another thought. (yes, 2 in one week!)

Keep in mind I am not endorsing or suggesting any of the following, but merely posting it as a basis for discussion. Maybe someone else could see a way to make it work in the Real World ™.

...

Why couldn't a RR be held *concurrently* with a National Race? There are a few logistical issues:

1- Only National drivers could run the National classes, unless you duplicate the class in the Regional.

2- You couldn't mix the National race groups with the Regional only groups.

3- You'd need to pay an additional Sanction Fee (the base rate portion if there is one) and get two separate Insurance riders (which is no big deal).

4- National races have longer sessions so we can't run as many groups.

Some group juggling could be done to accomodate 2-3 RR groups.

Let's look at some numbers from the Pocono Dbl Nat-

Combine GP1- SRF and GP3- FV/F500 for a total of 40 cars

Combine GP4- all other SR and GP6- all other F for a total of 60 cars

As a side note- there were 10 FF that could also move to the SRF/FV/F500 group to even things out. The FF cars run about equivalent times to the F500's and the SRFs are in between the F500s and the FVs...

This is a 2.5 mile track so accomodating 50 cars should not be a big problem.

Assuming the SM will be its own group at this event next year, we could add an ITS/ITA group and an ITB/ITC group. This would bring in 80-100 more cars (possibly) thereby helping to finance the event.

There were 7 groups at this event. Consolidating the Wings&No-Wings&Things drops us to 5. Add SM next year for 6. Run two shorter RR sessions in place of the one missing National session.

Unfortunately I don't have time right now to look at any NHIS or LRP events, but someone else could...

Is it doable? Yes. Would it be a giant PITA? Probably. Would people b!tch? They always do. But hey, it's a thought. Take it for what it's worth.