Factory Shop Manual

[Jiveslug]

Hey gang. Ok, I have the opportunity to pick up a factory shop manual for my car second hand. Its a sweet deal. The only problem is that its for an '81 Corolla and my car is an '80. The spec line in the ITCS has the valid years for my car as 80-82, however, it also says in section 17.1.4 C that "...each driver/entrant shall have a factory shop manual for the specific make, model, and year of the automobile." So does that mean that I need to have the 1980 manual or will any manual from the years on the spec line work? What have you guys seen through experience?

Jive

[Greg Amy]

If it's a killer deal, buy it to meet the spirit of the rules. Technically it would the incorrect manual, but the only time the issue is likely to be raised is if/when you are protested.

In the interim until you start kicking tail, you can look for a killer deal on the manual for an '81, then sell your '80 manual on eBay for a profit...

[Jiveslug]

See, that just seems a little odd to me. If we can update and backdate parts in for all years within the spec line, why do you need to have a manual for your specific year? What if the specs changed in 1982 to something more advantageous? What would happen if I got protested for something, I presented my 1980 manual, and my car has a part that is not spec according to the 80 manual but IS spec for the 82 manual? Am I disqualified? How does the steward know? I called Toyota and asked if they had complete part lists available for my car and they said no. The DO have the shop manuals, however. So do I need to have a manual for every year that I use a part from (i.e. if my 80 uses a cylinder head from an 82, would I need to have both the 80 and the 82 manual)? That could get expensive fast, and since Im doing my build in the spirit of the GRM $200X challenge, thats not good! Who would I bring this to in the SCCA to get an "official" answer?

[ddewhurst]

***why do you need to have a manual for your specific year?***

Because the rule says we need the manual "To establish the originality and configuration of the vehicle,".

[Greg Amy]

Ryan, you'll need a shop manual for every year of car that you have unique parts for. As you pointed out, how else can you prove legality?

Add some eBay daily searches. You'd be impressed at what manuals show up there. Worst case, you might be able to find one in PDF on a CD-ROM, which I think wold meet the spirit of the rules.

On a picky side note, note that your example of replacing the cylinder head is not relevant, as the rules only allow replacing complete assemblies (whole engine, not just the head.)

[x-ring]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Aug 23 2005, 06:53 AM
...you might be able to find one in PDF on a CD-ROM, which I think wold meet the spirit of the rules.

[snapback]58879[/snapback]

Not just the spirit, the letter too. The type of media doesn't matter, as long as you bring along whatever means you requre to access the manual. A laptop computer, for example, if your manual is in PDF format on a CD-ROM.

That provision was added this year, IIRC.

[Jiveslug]

Aha. Thanks guys. Had not thought about the CD-Rom. Ill see if I can track one of those down.....

Yeah, sorry about the cylinder head thingy, it was the only thing that popped into my mind at the time. I should have said something like larger brakes or the like.....

[lateapex911]

This situation is one of those "just in case" things...

To actually go racing, you may not be able to get the proper factory manual, in which case a Haynes or equivilent will suffice. Nobody has ever asked to see mine.

In the unlikely event of a protest, your protester may have more info on your car than you do, and thats when the factory manuaul and documentation come into play.

It's a good idea to be prepared with the best documentation possible, and there may be unique things on your car that are perfectly legal that others are unaware of, so making sure you have the backing documents for those is key.

A good exmple was when I was autocrossing, I was able to find a car that had it's AC deleted. Most of the same model had it. of course, when we hit Salina for the Nationals, sure enough, instant protest. (# of my friends had the same thing protested.) In our case, providing one sales sticker that showed "AC delete" was proof enough that the cars were available from the factory that way, and could be run that way.

It's unlikely that you will ever be protested, but of course, the better prepared you are the odds go down even further!

[x-ring]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Aug 23 2005, 01:36 PM

It's unlikely that you will ever be protested, but of course, the better prepared you are the odds go down even further!

[snapback]58906[/snapback]

That reminds me about a guy in a SM at Second Creek Last year paddocked next to me. Just by looking, you'd swear his tires stuck out past his fenders. When another SM driver made a comment, he wordlessly went into his trailer and returned with a bottle of white powdered chalk and a tape measure.

'Nuff said...

[MarkL]

All that may be true, but when I raced at a Detroit Region race some years back, one of the anuses at tech announced to me "If you don't have an Official Factory Shop Manual for your car, and you finish third or better, YOU WILL BE DISQUALIFIED !" I thought "Wut a ass!" and asked him if my Chilton's Manual would do since the factory shop manuals for my car were no longer available (no internet then), and he said "No, you need the Official Factory Shop Manual!" And I thought "Wut a fully packed ass!" So, it depends on the region. You probably really should get the manuals (the full set).

[ddewhurst]

Mark, what car do you have ? & what do you mean by "You probably really should get the manuals (the full set)." What is a full set ?

Example: I have an 1985 Mazda RX-7 & one manual is required.

Mazda RX-7 1985 Workshop manual. by Mazda

[racer#10]

Per Jerome in Topeka, "aftermarket vehicle specific repair manuals are accepible". The purpose is to establish legality in the case of a protest, so be sure the repair manual is vehicle specific.

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by MarkL@Sep 19 2005, 06:16 PM
All that may be true, but when I raced at a Detroit Region race some years back, one of the anuses at tech announced to me "If you don't have an Official Factory Shop Manual for your car, and you finish third or better, YOU WILL BE DISQUALIFIED !"

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Your anus needs to read the ITCS, specifically, 17.1.4.C, fourth paragraph. - GA

[ddewhurst]

As long as we are in the anal (rules nerd) arena we really should read the rule 17.1.4.C.

"If the FACTORY shop manual is no longer available from the VEHICLE MANUFACTURE, an AFTERMARKET shop manual will be accepted with PROOF OF NON-AVAILABILITY from the MANUFACTURE."

The sticky part:

"PROOF OF NON-AVAILABILITY from the MANUFACTURE."

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Sep 21 2005, 08:06 AM
The sticky part...

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Nah, easy. Email from the Customer Support division of the manufacturer, letter from a local parts department of a dealer, screen shot of an order page from their web site, blah, blah, blah. Same email/letter/web rejection you'd get from them if you tried to order one. There's no requirement for a personal handwritten letter on aged rice paper from Soichiro Honda. - GA

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Sep 21 2005, 12:49 PM
Nah, easy. Email from the Customer Support division of the manufacturer, letter from a local parts department of a dealer, screen shot of an order page from their web site, blah, blah, blah. Same email/letter/web rejection you'd get from them if you tried to order one. There's no requirement for a personal handwritten letter on aged rice paper from Soichiro Honda. - GA

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Ummmm, what happens if your manufactuer went out of business in 1976?

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by rlearp@Sep 24 2005, 07:58 PM
Ummmm, what happens if your manufactuer went out of business in 1976?

R

[snapback]61115[/snapback]

You mean there is no JensenSpeed? :P

AB

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by rlearp@Sep 24 2005, 07:58 PM
Ummmm, what happens if your manufactuer went out of business in 1976?

[snapback]61115[/snapback]

Then I think you'll have a damn ealsy time coming up with a "letter from the manufacturer that specifically states the authorized factory manual is no longer available...".

Or something like that.

[Ron Earp]

Yeah, JensenSpeed, I like that!

Greg, you are correct and now the wheels are turning. I could then also easily come up with some letters about how the 2.2L stroker crank superceeded the 2.0L crank, the rear axle was superceeded with an easy to get Ford 7.5" axle, and rare as Rocking Horse poop 5 speed Getrag transmission was superceeded by a really common Toyota 5 sp that happened to come out 10 years after "we" went out of business!

I guess not huh?

Ron

[Greg Amy]

(With hands clasped firmly over his ears):

I am not listening to you I am not listening to you I am not listening to you...