ITB MGB

[evanwebb]

OK, this is a sordid story so don't let your kids see it. You see, a couple years ago I, umm, bought a basket case '71 MGB. It ran, sort of, and mostly my feet didn't poke through the floor. And it had this really swell blue fiberglass top with blue tinted glass (well, translucent plastic actually) to go with the really swell collection of different blue paints on the rest of the car. Except for the engine compartment, which had mostly been brush painted black. And it was only $750!
So I said, (use Ali G voice now "check yourself before you wreck yourself, whot be happnin' here is like total bargain, you'se be like mad to not totally, like, buy this..." Because, clearly, as I told others at the time, this was a car that merely needed some cosmetic work on the outside to make it presentable, and a tune-up to get it running well, and then I could drive it around town occasionally while fixing the inevitable charming, rustic, broken British bits. Think of driving twisty roads with your stringback gloves on out to picnics in the countryside with a wicker basket before doing a bit of punting on the Avon, ahh...
Needless to say, I've been doing a lot of welding for the last couple years, and now the chassis is in danger of being sound soon. Also needless to say, any car that I own has a tendency to appear in my mind's eye as a race car. I swear, I don't mean for this to happen, it just does... So, initially I was thinking of a vintage racer, but now I think it would be cool if it was also ITB legal. If you have read this far you have impressive powers of concentration, by the way. So, any opinions on an ITB MGB? It is light @ 2050 lb, and I think that the horsepower can creep into the 115 range. So, if you drove it hard that might be a mid pack car. My main interest is that it would be an open top car which I think is cool, but I admit that the aero will pretty much suck...

[lateapex911]

I love British cars,,,,
I hate dorking with PIAs...

So I love driving other peoples British cars!

The cool thing about the car is that it's open....BUT..its a race car! Race cars are supposed to win, regardless of being open or closed or whatever....I can't see the heartache of all the work, just to run mid pack, only to fall out due to a leather thingy failing on some SU carb...

And yeah...it would look cool, until you had to put some dorky roll cage thing on it that meets todays regs...

Drive it on the street...it will scare you even going slow...and there is charm to that!

IMHO, of course!

[Guest_JeffYoung_*]

B's are cool cars, but will have a terrible time with 150 hp Volvos, etc. Probably not even midpack, especially since they are a bit tricky to get them to turn as well.

If you are going to run oddballs, look for a car that has an unusual attribute that will help compensate for its other, and many, shortcomings:

Alfa Milano (Horsepower)
TR8 (torque)
Jensen (low weight)
Opel GT (aero)

Etc. The B doesn't really have one.

Not trying to discourage you, but it's a hard road with the oddballs and you need something unusual or unique performance wise about the car to make it worthwhile.

Jeff

[evanwebb]

Well, interestingly enough I just check some numbers and a 2640 lb Volvo with 150 hp comes to 17.7 lb/hp and a 2050 lb MGB with 115 hp comes to 17.8 lb/hp. Interesting... The smaller frontal area of the MGB might help make up for some horsepower deficit in a straight line, but I don't know which is worse aerodynamically, a brick or an open car...

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by evanwebb@Aug 10 2005, 08:09 PM
Well, interestingly enough I just check some numbers and a 2640 lb Volvo with 150 hp comes to 17.7 lb/hp and a 2050 lb MGB with 115 hp comes to 17.8 lb/hp. Interesting... The smaller frontal area of the MGB might help make up for some horsepower deficit in a straight line, but I don't know which is worse aerodynamically, a brick or an open car...

[snapback]58197[/snapback]

That would be peak hp/weight.

Think more about area under the curve, torque throughout the RPM range. I bet the Volvo has a lot of it, and the MG has very little in comparison. Therefore, the peak hp vs. weight is similar but the torque vs. weight compared throughout the range I bet is not similar. That is going to make a lot of difference off the corner exit speeds for sure. Volvos are good ITB cars, seen a lot of them run and they hustle.

Ron

[mgyip]

So what you're saying is that you enjoy welding rusty things back together so they can rust again? :119:

The weight/hp is more favorable than the A1 VW GTi so I would imagine that the MGB would be somewhat competitive BUT I wouldn't be incredibly comfortable in an semi-open car running with (and against) the lumbering Volvo or the tree-top tall 2002.

See you at MARRS 7...

[evanwebb]

Interestingly the torque curve for the bone-stock MGB is basically flat (between 100 - 110 fl-lb) from 2000 - 5000 RPM. HP is fairly flat (90 - 100 HP) between 4500 - 6500 RPM. As I understand it the big horsepower limiter for a built motor are the 1.5" SU HS-4 carbs. I guess the head is also somewhat of a problem since the intakes are siamesed but the valve sizes are reasonably generous for a 1.8 motor @ 41/34 mm. Compression for a race motor would be 9.3:1

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by evanwebb@Aug 11 2005, 04:41 PM
Interestingly the torque curve for the bone-stock MGB is basically flat (between 100 - 110 fl-lb) from 2000 - 5000 RPM. HP is fairly flat (90 - 100 HP) between 4500 - 6500 RPM. As I understand it the big horsepower limiter for a built motor are the 1.5" SU HS-4 carbs.

[snapback]58250[/snapback]

It has two, right? And how large is the motor? Jeff's 3.5L Rover V8 made 160 rear wheel hp through two 1.75" SU clones, the Strombergs. It'll make a lot more since we have recently upgraded it to IT legal status to the full extent of what is allowed. I would think your motor would do fine with two 1.5" orifaces and I imagine the cam/head is the limiting factor, not the carb flow.

R

[924Guy]

There's one up here at Waterford Hills that runs once in a while. He's at races more often, but recently has been fighting plenty of ignition and carburetion issues.

Haven't seen the speed out of it, but with such an unreliable car, getting all the track time you need to get the speed up is gonna be real hard!

Naturally, I prefer those solid reliable German cars... change the oil and beat the Pi$$ out of it... :119:

[Jiveslug]

Im with you on that, Vaughn. Well, maybe not the German car thing, but having a reliable one you can beat the crap out of. Looks like Im probably going to go with a somewhat unproven platform for my racer, but at least I wont have to worry about it breaking down on me (Toyota baby). Actually, Im looking at another candidate for a donor this weekend. Hopefully this will be a good one. Anyway, I had briefly considered the MGB, as well as the Fiat 124, but I ultimately decided against them because of the fact that in my first years of racing, I want to get more seat time than wrench time... Heh. Anyway, that being said, I DO think the MGB is a sweet ride and if you do end up building one, I would give you all of the moral support you would need. lol. You would just have to promise to keep us all updated on the build progress.

Jive

[924Guy]

Oh, yeah, torque for a stock 924 2.0L is basically flat between 3000-5000RPM, and you've got 5 gears to row through, perfectly spaced... hint hint...

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Jiveslug@Aug 12 2005, 10:59 AM
......... if you do end up building one, I would give you all of the moral support you would need. lol. ............
Jive

[snapback]58307[/snapback]

But is that even possible?? IS there that much moral support in stock in the world???

[Jiveslug]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Aug 13 2005, 12:03 AM
But is that even possible?? IS there that much moral support in stock in the world???

[snapback]58336[/snapback]

Dude, that was brutal Jake!!! I laughed my ass off.

[evanwebb]

You know what, Vaughn, if I were looking to go get a car to build for IT right now there is no question in my mind that I would build an ITB 924. That is such a cool car for ITB. But, since I've got this MGB I'm looking at either staying stock-ish with ITB level prep or else do it limited-prep GProd, which is what I am probably leaning more towards right now since It would then be more consistent with the prep level in vintage racing...

[924Guy]

OMG, somebody who considers a 924 COOL?!? We've got to get you one, just as a reward! (or punishment? )

Muchas Gracias... hope to make it to the ARRC, since I've just had to hand over any shot at my my local ITB championship (Waterford) to travel for work... :angry:

[zracre]

I too think they are cool cars for ITB...can I have one too????

[924Guy]

Correction - you're all sick!

Hey, they're out there, a dime a dozen... problem is the already-built ones were built to run at the back of ITA, not the front of ITB. 'Cept for mine. :P

[Bill Miller]

Hey Evan, come down and buy the MGB-GT that's in my yard!!! Lots of spares, and the thing is pretty solid!!! I'll make you a REALLY good deal!!

[zracre]

I will as soon as I sell the GT6+ sitting in my yard....

[charrbq]

Originally posted by lateapex911@Aug 10 2005, 12:06 AM
I love British cars,,,,
I hate dorking with PIAs...

So I love driving other peoples British cars!

The cool thing about the car is that it's open....BUT..its a race car! Race cars are supposed to win, regardless of being open or closed or whatever....I can't see the heartache of all the work, just to run mid pack, only to fall out due to a leather thingy failing on some SU carb...

And yeah...it would look cool, until you had to put some dorky roll cage thing on it that meets todays regs...

Drive it on the street...it will scare you even going slow...and there is charm to that!

IMHO, of course!

[snapback]58121[/snapback]

Great wisdom spoken here. AAA is much closer than at the track, and cheaper than an entry fee. Plus, that's what they were designed for...open road, top down fun! If you're really bent on self destruction, then GP should be youur target. Besides, 115 hp is what is rumored to be in some of the front running ITC cars...certainly not mine!