Steering on old vans - 89 E350

[benracin]

So the steering on my E350 is pretty funky. I've told people that it's scary to which they reply oh it's probably just loose like an old truck. Then they take a turn in the seat and after a couple white knuckle miles finally admit that yes, it is scary, it's possessed.

I don't think it's going to fall apart or anything and if you're going under 35mph you don't even notice, but pick up the speed and get ready for some fun. It's much like sawing at the wheel of an old tractor.

What it feels like to me is that one wheel is allowed to rotate a bit as it pleases causing the van to steer side to side as it sees fit. A different tilt to the road, or horizontal breeze or just a change in the alignment of the stars causes the van to change directions. So while you're driving down the highway you're busy correcting the van over and over again. You want to go straight, van wants to take a left, you steer right a bit. Van wants to go right, you steer left a bit, and repeat. Add a trailer to this mix and you have some serious fun. It doesn't pull to the side, it doesn't just wander a bit, it wants to turn. Getting passed by a Semi is also fun.

It has a king pin front end which I'm told might be the problem, but I'm not really sure of how that all works. I know that if it requires work on the king pin it's to the shop it goes. What I'm wondering is if anyone else any experience with this and if it's something other than the king pin and it's something I can fix. If it is the king pin, what do I tell the shop to look for? I don't want to take it to the shop, have them just tighten up the steering and say there you go because I'm almost certain that's not it.

Any experience with wacky wandering fords out there? Please don't make me the only person on my crew who can drive the 7 hours back home after 2 races earlier that day.

[RacerArt]

The first thing to look at on a Ford van is the bushing where the trailing link meets the frame. There's one on each side, right about under the front seats. They are a very common wear item.

Other than that I have found Ford E-250 / 350 vans to be pretty dependable. If that isn't it, you may want to take it to a good alignment shop anyway. The suspension and steering members are under enough load, even with the wheels off the ground, that it's tough to find loose things by hand.

-Art

[spnkzss]

If you have never done it, it would probably be a good time to just reuild the front end. All new ball joints, tie rods, etc. Just beware. There is one tie rod that is rather expensive, I want to say $150+. Once you replace it all, align it and enjoy.

I still ahve some of the parts for my E350 box truck that I need to install (have them already just not installed), and yes, mine is scary, but not until you hit 60pmh down the hill on the way to summit. Towing a trailer on that hill in the rain makes it even more fun

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

[benracin]

So do you think there's a chance that the fixes I need are not really king pin related? It would be awesome if I could do this myself. I think I'm crazy though. With a race less than a month away I've spent the last 8 nights on the van and nothing on my car for over a year. Ouch!

[spnkzss]

You just need to look at ball joints, etc and see what kind of play and wear you have. More than likely a nice front end rebuild should make all the difference in the world.

Lots of weight + lots of age = lots of slop



Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

[lateapex911]

There is no other popular vehicle that has, IMHO, worse steering brand new....I hate to imagine how it is old and worn!

My Dodge van was a classic "loose" recirculating ball deal, b ut the Fords...sheeesh!

Ben get out there and grab the top of the wheel and shake for all yur life. If it moves in and out, check the ball joints and bearings. next, grab the wheel at 9 and 3 and shake, and if you feel slop, start looking for tie rods, pitman arms, drag link and idler arm wear. Not that all those parts are actually on your truck, LOL, but just get under there and start poking around. Often the gulity party is obvious.

I know the budget is a concern, so if you can find one bad peice, great. If not, it is never a bad idea to do some general maintenance!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[planet6racing]

Ben:

My 92 has the same crappy steering. Fun in the wind, ain't it?

I've been told that the steering boxes on these are to blame. I don't know if it is true or not, so take it for what it is worth. I didn't want to tackle the whole problem so, after replacing a few of the parts (tie-rod ends) and making sure nothing was loose and going to fall apart, I just dealt with it. That made the trip to Atlanta just that much more fun!

Good luck! I know I didn't help any!

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...it would probably be a good time to just reuild the front end.</font>

Ditto. I had to do that on my '93 E-350 with 254K miles. Needed ball joints, tie rod ends, and the two-ball-joint arm that goes to the other steering arm (can't ever remember its name; the "Pitman Arm"?)

Plus, you might need a steering box, but you could get away with it for now by tightening the worm gear lash. - GA

[JLawton]

The Haynes for my 2002 F150 says to check for worn Pitman and idler arms, jack up one wheel and try to move it side to side. You should be able to see if there is play in either one.

I'm sure if you bring it to an alignment shop, they'll be more than happy to tell you what parts are bad.

Also, how worn are your tires? They can make a huge difference.

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[benracin]

Awesome advice guys. She has brand new tires which look really mean on it. I should show a picture of this van since it's one mean machine that used to haul a mamography machine around town before I got it. Good thing they took off the giant pink bow.

I did notice that some of the rubber parts under there have some cracks in them. Guess it's time to spend more non-racecar money. Need any wacky tools to work on these parts?

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">it's one mean machine...</font>

Can it beat this?

http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/e350/DCP_5262.JPG

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Need any wacky tools...</font>

Yeah, a big effin floorjack, big effin jackstands, and a big effin set of hammers. After all, this is a true one-ton TRUCK. Not your average little wussy "Edy-Lariat-Bauer version" pickup.

[benracin]

Prepare yourself for the awesome power that is "the mamovan"

http://www.hardingracing.com/Mamovan/mamovan.JPG

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
Yeah, a big effin floorjack, big effin jackstands, and a big effin set of hammers. After all, this is a true one-ton TRUCK. Not your average little wussy "Edy-Lariat-Bauer version" pickup.

Yeah, baby!

G

[lateapex911]

Nice woodgrain there, Greg!

And Ben, what'sthe truck BEHIND the van?? That thing looks cool...whgat say we pull the body /cab and drop it over a Sierra P/U chassis or something similar?

Jeezz I wish I had a website to host pics of MY old Dodge...they didn't call it the "crack house van" for nothing!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[tderonne]

"You know you're a racer if" comes to mind...

If you'll buy a used van from ANYONE.

We used to call a buddy's van the raper van, you know the type of van often seen on the local news as being driven near local schools.

[benracin]

That picture is from the guy I bought it from. Lived out on a farm. That is my favorite joke with my van though. It's got a wheel chair lift and everything so hanging out by schools is even more scary. Just need some big glasses and a stache. I'm really tempted to paint it like the A-Team. The best part about it is that the extended roof helps it slice through the wind. Actually improves down force as well as gas mileage and top speed. The inside is even wood paneled!

Having one of these mosters is pretty cool though. The inside is a blank canvas. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but I'm sure it will need a disco ball and some subs.

[JohnRW]

Every time I have to climb into the back of the dually, I swear loudly (and with malice aforethought) and chant "I miss my van, I miss my van, I miss my van...".

Gawd...I MISS MY VAN !!!!!

Yes...if you have an accident in a van, you arrive a little early, compared to the 'truck guys'...and the dually is more stable and has a better rubber/brake/weight ratio...and it's nice having that noisy big diesel thing 3 feet in front of me, rather than right under my right knee (advice - if you have a diesel van, get a GOOD stereo, as it helps to drown out the clatter)...

BUT I MISS MY VAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wasn't towing that big fat-assed enclosed trailer-pig, I'd still be running a van.

[zracre]

I have seen some really cool ambulance conversions....and they are pretty cheap

------------------
Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[JohnRW]

Ex-ambulance = electrical wiring nightmare.

Don't know what the ambulance builders do (Horton, etc.) to take a relatively reliable platform and turn them into incredibly complicated and failure-prone vehicles.

I've been attracted to ex-ambulances for years, but then I talk to people who have ex-ambulances, and I drop the idea.

[benracin]

Well it will be a wheel wiggling night at my house. Over lunch I had a friend move the steering wheel back and forth a bit but I honesly couldn't see anything misbehaving. I know the steering has slack in it but I'm pretty sure it had slack in it when it was new as well. Plus the gear box is a few more dollars then I want to spend. I guess we'll just have to see how well my 115lb girlfriend, I mean wife does moving that huge wheel around. She's my wife now, I should be able to put her to work right?

Although the new headers for the car just showed up.. hmmm... what to do...