Thoughts on towing with minivan?

[924Guy]

It's time for me to replace my trusty old Suburban, and I'm trying to decide if I really need another Burb or can get away with a minivan - as a friend indicates that his Chrysler minivan (AWD w/ 3.8 and load-leveling susp) can handle up to 4400lbs. My trailer and car together are 4000. Budget fits the 99-01 Burbs, anything up to around $16k.

Requirements:
- AWD - it's my winter transportation, and I prefer AWD
- seats plenty in comfort (4 min, 6 is better) - a pickup with extended cab isn't good enough IMO, for traveling distances with friends
- ABS (a given, no problem)
- tow capacity of 4000lbs min
- cargo capacity of Burb equivalent with seats out - cause I have an open trailer, and all of my gear goes in the back of the tow vehicle.

Would prefer the mileage and driving dynamics of a minivan when not towing. I'd also prefer the ease of parking - my driveway is very short, and my Burb hangs over the sidewalk when parked in the driveway. I'd expect an extended cab pickup with full bed to have the same problem.

Does this make sense, to think that I could use one of these AWD Chrysler minivans (probably an 00-02) to haul such a load? Is it the load-leveling suspension that gives it the added boost in capacity?

I'm certainly not about to buy an enclosed trailer, so no need for the 3/4-ton Burb anytime soon.

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[planet6racing]

Vaughn:

I'm sure you have thought about this, as it is your job, but...

Brakes. That is the single biggest thing I'd be concerned with. I know you're trailer has brakes, but it is nice to know that the tow vehicle can stop everything in the event of trailer brake failure.

The other thing I'd worry about is the short wheelbase.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[joeg]

Simply a bad idea.

Go for a Dakota crew cab with the 4.7 V-8.

It is an adequate (and SAFE) tow vehicle and a very good daily driver.

A minivan is still FWD oriented notwithstanding the AWD option.

[924Guy]

Like I said, crew cab pickup isn't desireable due to interior space, parking, etc. Sure, the Burb is just as lousy to park and fuel, but at least it's got hella good interior space. At that point (not getting a minivan) I'd be better off, for my needs (IMO) with the Burb. Plus, with all the soccer moms ditching them now for Pruises and whatever is the latest "cool" car, they are easy to find...

Brakes is a very good point...

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Jake]

The Suburban may be overkill, but a Chrysler Minivan would be pushing it. Why not something in-between. A used Pathfinder or 4Runner would suit you well.

[924Guy]

Inadequate interior (cargo) space.

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Ron Earp]

It'll tow it - as I've said before, go to the paddocks in the UK and you'll find we're far better off with anything we tow with, including a minivan. My Dad uses a Ford Mini van to tow his 20ft sailboat with and it is pretty damn heavy.

A small truck will work well too and I wouldn't worry about the wheelbase. Everyone told me "Your Lightning will be a horrilbe tow truck". Well, it isn't. In fact, it is quite good with a 20ft enclosed and a lot of stuff - good power and torque and great brakes than shame the trucks that I was told to get to tow with. Fuel use? Well, it only gets around 15 mpg with no trailer, and gets about 10 mpg with the enclosed trailer, so I suppose that is about par for the course.

Anyhow, like you, I had to use mine as a daliy driver and the big truck that I consider overkill for tow duty, since I'm only towing once a month, is too big for daily duty in my opinion.

I would think you can get away with it, but then again, I've seen people with 16ft enclosed trailers behind an Audi 5000s and it works good enough to get to the track and back!

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited June 04, 2005).]

[924Guy]

I suppose another good economical solution might be the minivan with a big-brake upgrade!

Please keep the opinions coming, I value everyone's input!

Thanks,

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Ron Earp]

You just have to get used to the fact that Americans overtow and it is somewhat related to the car industry rating the cars and trucks WAY conservative. They say 6000lbs, you say, "well, I've got to tow 5000 lbs, that is close, I better get the F350" and shazam, they make more cash, more gas gets bought, everyone is happy.

I'm going over to the UK for some track time at Donnington and I'll bring back same paddock pictures, you guys will laugh.

I am putting air bags on my rear to help with my tonque weight - $300 kit and it should help the only problem I have with the Lightning - I feel the tongue weight is just too high and it is causing rear end sag. Helper springs would be a cheaper solution.

A big brake upgrade would certainly take care of business, although on a minivan I'm not sure what exists. Certainly some more aggressive pads exisit I bet, might be worth a look.

Make sure the Chysler AWD system won't be fooled into doing something stupid with extra weight on the rear of the car. I don't think it will, but I don't know Chysler systems. I do know a fellow that tows with his Volvo Cross Country wagon (4700lbs of stuff, 2.4L motor, AWD, works fine) and his AWD system works fine with it, but I heard of an Audi owner than had big issues on his AWD system and towing.



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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[Scott Koschwitz]

I tow my Spec Miata on a 14' aluminum, open trailer with my VW EuroVan. Total weight is about 2,800 pounds. The van is rated at 4,500 pounds, so I have a good safety margin.

A lot of people look at me funny, but it does a good job -- stable as hell with great brakes -- even in the Connecticut hills.

It doesn't have AWD, so it wouldn't be an option for you. But I can attest to the utility of a van, especially if you have an open trailer.

Another option: one of the Ford, Chevy, or GMC passenger vans. The Astro might be a little small, but the next step up (E-150, Express/Savanna) might be a good choice. I think they all have removable passenger seats, so you can free some cargo room.

[BUMPnGO]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...0&category=6472

How about one of these with the Mercedes 2.7 turbo diesel with 243 ft. lbs. of torque

[mowog]

Over the years I've towed lightweight cars on open trailers (about 3000#) up to heavier cars in enclosed trailers (up to 8000#). I've used station wagons, vans, truks, and 'burbs. In addition to the brake issues mentioned already, the biggest problems I've found or seen others suffer thru involve suspension problems, followed by transmission failures. Within a few years the springs sag even towing far less than rated capacity. I know of more than 10 people who have had transmission failures while towing. I've also had problem swith tire blow-outs, but that's probably due to tongue weight combined with too much cargo. One question is how far do you tow, and how often? How many large hills and mountains in between? If your typical tow is an hour or maybe two, with only minor hills, than you might be able to get away with a minivan. If you tow 4-5 hours on the PA turnpike, while carrying alot of heavy cargo, I wouldn't recommend it. My favorite dual purpose vehicle was a Suburban. My second favorite is a truck with a cap. For your purposes, I would think most any mid-sized crew cab with a cap, including the Nissan and Toyota, could handle the job well and still be a reasonable daily driver. They'd probably get better mileage than the 'burb too.

[crushed]

I tow with an Astro van and love it. It could use more power, but the brakes are fine and i've really never had much of a stability problem. I don't think I would tow with anything less then the stro tho...

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Russ Marshall
#31 IT-7

[tom_sprecher]

I share the same concerns as mowog. I spend a couple of weeks a year in the Down River area and one thing I can say you have going for you is how flat it is there. If that is the prevalent landscape around the tracks you frequent you might be OK.

We have a couple of hills in Georgia and the Carolinas. Thats why we don't drive in the snow and ice. I think a mini van would be hard pressed to pull up them. You can feel and hear the difference even between a 327 and a 350 pulling the same trailer.

Trannys take the most abuse and changing your fluid on a regular basis is good PM. An additional cooler is not a bad idea either. I'm not much up on mommy, I mean, mini vans, but maybe you could look into whether a towing package was offered or not.


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Tom Sprecher
Team SuperTech

[Speed Raycer]

Our 1st Gen 4wd Durango does well. It's basically a Minivan with a V8. Seats 7-8 with kids in the 3rd row. 2nd and 3rd row lay down flat for cargo.

Average mileage w/o the trailer is around 13/14 city with the Tow package (3.91's, tranny cooler and big mirrors). About 11/12 mpg towing (OD OFF).

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Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

Izzy's Custom Cages

[gsbaker]

Vaughan,

A couple of ideas:

1) A friend tows a 40' travel trailer with a current version Durango (8,900# capacity) and has no complaints.

2) I've seen ads in boating magazines for a tacked out Ford conversion van claiming a 10,000# capacity. As a land yacht it may be more than you need, but it's nice to know it's there as an option.

G

[lateapex911]

Can you sing, "Puff the magic transmission, lived in the Chyrsler..." ????

I thought you could!

Seriously, just because the English do it a certain way doesn't make it right!

I have no facts to back it up, but I have seen so many Dodge and Chrysler minivans stuck in 1st or 2nd, and needing new trannies, it makes me laugh. Adding the AWD stuff hasn't given me more confidence! (If it's a seperate system entirely, and lifted from Mercedes, then maybe...but otherwise, no thanks!

How bout the small 'Burban? The Yukon?
Durango is a decent idea, but again, Chrysler quality......

And don't even THINK about an Exploder! LOL!

And Ron?? You'll remember it wasn't ME telling you not to do the Lightning thing! I've driven them, and they are WAY faster than they should be! LOL. Hot truck...I would love one myself.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Ron Earp]

Hey Jake,

You are correct on the trannies and I had completely forgotten about that even though I am experiencing that right now! We have two Chysler vans and one is on its second tranny and the first one is getting its second tranny next month. Both have about 130k on them.

You are right, just because the Brits do it doesn't make it right, but they do get by with much less than we do and do okay. My L has the diesel automatic in it and a version of that truck's rear end so I think it'll last towing. Now, if it will surive my dragstrip antics, that is another story...

Those Yukons seem pretty good and can have a towing package with tranny temp gauge, different gears, cooler, etc. How about that Trailblazer with the inline six? Any good?

I think when I was looking I threatened to get a Ford Ranchero with the 428, that was about when my wife said get the Lightning instead. I figured a 70s truck, a 70s race car, I was all set to have pork chops and a fro with some flair jeans.

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited June 03, 2005).]

[lateapex911]

I know the Brits do it, but getting by with it is another story....

I saw a HILARIOUS video of towing "mishaps", and wouldn't you know, the Brits starred in it. The contraptions they had were to be seen to be believed.

"No worries, we'll press on regardless!"

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[jc836]

I read and reread your inquiry. Being biased-the Dakota is indeed a better choice than a minivan whose tow capacity is very close to your estimate for the trailer. Our Club Cab is not as spacious as the Crew version-but it tows our rig with ease (4x2 4.7L). In the winter it runs just fine. You want AWD and that is OK too.
If you need the room-a lot of room and don't mind the fuel bill, then the Burb is the way to go. Most minivans can handle part of your needs, but not all by comparison to what you have.
The downside for either a truck or Burb is parking. I cannot put the Dakota or any truck of that size in a parking garage. Clearance at the house is tight but doable. Most SUV's have trouble with clearance as well. Our Alabama family has a full-size Burb and they had to go with a higher door on the garage at their new house. Some minivans will also pose this issue-so be careful. You mention driveway length and that indeed is an issue that is difficult to resolve.
The most important thing I can suggest is that you carefully determine the GROSS weight of your rig as set up to tow. I did and learned that Chrysler in its infinte way did NOT consider the Dakota a true truck (GM and FORD) also suffer from this brain fade). They chose to NOT use the true heavy duty springs from the Durango (better than a minivan for our purposes) as part of the HD Towing Package. WHY-because they wanted people to be comfy in a truck. I get compliments on how smooth the ride is-but I need the springs to hold the weight of everything in the bed and the trailer too (CRX on a 20' aluminum R&R open). Seems that the original springs had to be replaced after our 1st trip because the sagged 2". No problem since-but what a pain. And I was well under to limit of 6010. (BTW the new Durango is rated for over 7000.)

Have a great summer


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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow