Poor running ITC Fiesta

[128 racecar]

Finally got my $500 eBay 78 ITC Fiesta on the track at Gingerman last weekend. Not on the track since 98. Handled and braked well but ran poorly. Starts and idles well, revs to 5000 well with no load, but stumbles/cuts out when revved under driving conditions. Ran ok at around 3000-3500 but not able rev above this. Following checked and/or replaced with no change in running condition:

Good compression
no smoke/minimal blowby
new plugs
new fuel pump mechanical- even tried switch to electric
new fuel filters
tried both new weber 34 DMTR and original carb with no change
timing correct
ran cool/ good oil pressure

I am not familiar with the electronic ignition on this car. Wiring is fairly cobbled up by prev owner.

Any thoughts on what to check out next?

Thanks,
Marc in Indy

[fiestadude]

Marc,

Sounds like you got a pretty good car for $500.

I would take a look at a few things to hone in on the problem.

Ignition system - Make sure you are getting good spark throughout the RPM range, could be cutting out (Distributor, Brain Box, plug wires, etc.)

Fuel system - Same thing, get the RPM's up, and see if your fuel pump is keeping up. Some Fiesta guys will actually mount the carb sideways to fix the fuel starvation [problem, which is a problem on Fiesta's. I am using the same carb you are, but strange enough, no starvation issues so far.

Adjust the valves - This is very simple. Get a haynes manual and follow the directions. I cannot remember the exact tollerances, so check the book.

I would look into the valves & Ignition system first. If you are loosing power on the high end, sounds like you may be gettign some valve float or something.

Give it a try and let me know how it turns out.

I am always willing to help out another Fiesta guy, so ask questions!!!!!!



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JJ
#62 ITC

[grjones1]

Originally posted by 128 racecar:
Finally got my $500 eBay 78 ITC Fiesta on the track at Gingerman last weekend. Not on the track since 98. Handled and braked well but ran poorly. Starts and idles well, revs to 5000 well with no load, but stumbles/cuts out when revved under driving conditions. Ran ok at around 3000-3500 but not able rev above this. Following checked and/or replaced with no change in running condition:

Good compression
no smoke/minimal blowby
new plugs
new fuel pump mechanical- even tried switch to electric
new fuel filters
tried both new weber 34 DMTR and original carb with no change
timing correct
ran cool/ good oil pressure

I am not familiar with the electronic ignition on this car. Wiring is fairly cobbled up by prev owner.

Any thoughts on what to check out next?

Thanks,
Marc in Indy

Marc and JJ,
What timing are you running? Of course you know how much advance we must use? and JJ, do you think he may be off on his crank to cam sprocket mark? I had similar occurrences and found my cam was off 7-9 degrees. My DMTR doesn't bog in the corners either like the old DGEVs. Marc, also make sure you have a good engine to chassis ground, if the electrics are in question. And forgive me if I'm belaboring the obvious.
G. Robert


[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited September 17, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited September 17, 2003).]

[Fiesta#80ITC]

Marc I would change out the coil and the moduel I had the same problem. I run a msd blaster 2 coil and a msd box. Also I dont think the valves would cause that problem then again i might be wrong.

Jeff Leone
2003 ITC NERRC Champion

[racerdrew43]

Hey Jeff, Sounds like the same thing we had at LRP with the EXP. we changed the coil and the problem went away.

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Fiesta#80ITC:
Marc I would change out the coil and the moduel I had the same problem. I run a msd blaster 2 coil and a msd box. Also I dont think the valves would cause that problem then again i might be wrong.

Jeff Leone
2003 ITC NERRC Champion

Jeff,
I've seen your name often. When are you coming to Summit Point? And I hope it's his coil. That would be easy.
Highest Regards,
G. Robert Jones

[Fiesta#80ITC]

G.Robert
I would like to go there if not this year next year for sure. I will be going to the ARRC this year as long as the car stays in one piece for the next to races the NARRC run offs and the Glen. If you will be at the ARRC I will see you there I dont know how I will do but im going to give it shot.
Jeff Leone

[racerdrew43]

Mr GRJones-
You raise a good point about cam timing. I don't have a Kent motor,and maybe this is a stupid question, but, is there a procedure for checking the cam timing? I always line the crank mark to TDC at full advance (with the timing light)and there is a mark on the cam sprocket to line up at a dot in the head, but, how accurate is that, and what if the block was decked for the extra 1/2 point of compression? This may be fundemental but, you have to learn some how.
THANKS
Drew

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Fiesta#80ITC:
G.Robert
I would like to go there if not this year next year for sure. I will be going to the ARRC this year as long as the car stays in one piece for the next to races the NARRC run offs and the Glen. If you will be at the ARRC I will see you there I dont know how I will do but im going to give it shot.
Jeff Leone

Jeff,
We only finished 1st once this year. I may not be ready for the ARRC, that is competent enough to take on Road Atlanta for the first time and all the "hotshoes" at once.

Good luck, I'll be rooting for you and the Fiesta.
Were my suggestions to Marc off base?
G

[grjones1]

Originally posted by racerdrew43:
Mr GRJones-
You raise a good point about cam timing. I don't have a Kent motor,and maybe this is a stupid question, but, is there a procedure for checking the cam timing? I always line the crank mark to TDC at full advance (with the timing light)and there is a mark on the cam sprocket to line up at a dot in the head, but, how accurate is that, and what if the block was decked for the extra 1/2 point of compression? This may be fundemental but, you have to learn some how.
THANKS
Drew

Drew,
There is most definitely a procedure for checking cam timing it's called "indexing" or "degreeing" the cam and it is beyond my capabilities and equipment. I have to have a good engine builder do mine. The degreeing business (done with dial gauges and a good background in solid and plane geometry) checks to see that your marks are stamped in the right place due to wear on the keyways or whatever(and of course stock cams have some manufacturing leeway to deal with)to have the valve opening and closing at the right time in relation to the position of a piston in its cycle. (In my effort to put this simply, I'm probably confusing the hell out of the whole thing.)
In any case, you are probably doing the right thing with the marks if you are following your manual, but sometimes when lining up the marks, one can be off one tooth and it makes a world of difference. Also, to my knowledge at least with the Kent, you don't have to worry about ignition timing when you set the timing chain: the marks indicate the correct piston to cam lobe position is achieved. You just line up the marks. It's making sure the marks are indeed lined up and not a tooth off. Again, that's with the Kent, with your marks being on the head, it sounds like you have an overhead cam and TDC and full advance may be part of the process?
If the head (or block)is milled on an overhead cam motor, it will definitely affect cam timing (ask the Rabbit people about that business). The cam will have been brought closer to the crank and loosened the timing chain/belt and affected the geometry (and at least with the VWs the valve adjusting shims and tensioner don't correct the situation). On a push-rod motor (like the Kent)unless you have align-bored your block and deepened the crank in the block, I don't think the crank to camshaft sprocket relationship can be affected (the pushrod angle and length is corrected by the rocker arms and valve lash adjusters). I don't pretend to be expert in all this, I'm sure the real technicians would have a good laugh at my explanation but from what I understand, this is the good poop. Hope it helps and please don't call me "Mr.", I'm having a hard enough time dealing with old age.

G. Robert

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited September 17, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited September 17, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited September 17, 2003).]

[128 racecar]

Thanks for the help guys. Sounds like I need to check the folowing:

Valve adjustment

Ignition

Timing (I had checked the ignition timing and set it to 12 degrees BTDC, but never considered rechecking cam timing)

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever switched over to an older Ford 1600 points distributor? Would that be IT legal? (Not that would be too critical in the short haul as an open track car). I run a points distributor in my Fiat 128 vintage racecar, and it has been reliable up to 9000 rpm.

Thanks for the help- I'll keep you posted.

Marc Frost in Indy

[Mike Graves]

Originally posted by fiestadude:


Some Fiesta guys will actually mount the carb sideways to fix the fuel starvation problem, which is a problem on Fiesta's. I am using the same carb you are, but strange enough, no starvation issues so far.

Any of the Weber carbs with a "T" in their designation (DATR/DMTR, DFT, etc.)are made for use on transverse mounted engines and should not have any of the starvation problems typically encountered when using carbs designed for inline engine use, like the DGVs commonly used on FF cars. -Mike

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Mike Graves:
Any of the Weber carbs with a "T" in their designation (DATR/DMTR, DFT, etc.)are made for use on transverse mounted engines and should not have any of the starvation problems typically encountered when using carbs designed for inline engine use, like the DGVs commonly used on FF cars. -Mike

Mike,
I use a DMTR so the question is moot, but just out of curiosity: Haven't the new DGEVs (I think they have an "A" designator) solved the starvation problem with better floats?
G. Robert

[fiestadude]

Grjones1:

I was thinking he may have jumped a tooth ot two, but now maybe not. I would go for the coil & box idea as well.

Do you race in MiDiv too? We need to have a big Fiesta group event or something.

Fiesta#80ITC:

Jeff Leone? I bought some hubs from you guys earlier this season. Are you planning on making them still? No issues so far, they are working excellent. I wouldn't mind having a spare set just in case.

Let me know.

128 racecar:

I hope some of this helps you out. If not shoot me an e-mail and I will like to help out however I can.

[email protected]



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JJ
#62 ITC

[Fiesta#80ITC]

We are still selling the Hubs if any body is interested you can email me at [email protected]

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www.ctairtemp.com