Results ???

[Hracer]

Jake, thanks for posting that link. That made for an interesting read. Mattberg as someone who does not know you and as an outsider to SM, it was hard to tell what bothered you most: cheating in SM, or some personal feud you have with either Bob Stretch or his engine builder. I was confused about this at first, but after reading the SM thread (mainly your last post there), that question has been answered. Thanks!

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Alex
#90 ITA

[Geo]

I haven't read the thread on the SM board yet, but I highly doubt Bob Stretch knew he had an illegal engine. That would make him stupid and I don't think he's stupid. Why would he show up with an illegal engine knowing that if he won he'd be torn down anyway? It doesn't wash with me.

Sanctions are in order, but I'm glad I don't have to decide on them.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Quickshoe]

We were recently discussing, in another thread, how the ultimate responsibility lies on the driver. While, I agreed in theory, how is it practical for those drivers to ensure their motors compliance? Of course you can't allow them to claim ignorance or they will....

Now, perhaps this is being viewed in a different light?





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Daryl DeArman

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
I another sad tale, Jason Saliani (who I am aquanted with...but can't remember his last name spelling(!) ..he's a good guy) did his first ARRC in an SM, ran well, thought he was about 9th, and was told by an official in the pits that he should NOT go to impound. He had no idea of the T&S mess that was caused by the timing system failure, so he returned to his paddock. He was later called to tech, then handed a slip of paper tossing him from the event. For not reporting to tech after his race, of course. Seems that they finally determined he actually finished higher...sadly after 3 hours pleading his case he was rejected on the grounds that if they reinstated his position it would set a bad example.

I hope he appeals.

Jake,

Haven't there been cases of trophies (Runoffs' I think) being awarded to drivers after they've left the track? Folks ahead of them were tossed, but since they were not part of the original call to impound, they packed and left. How can you DQ a driver for not reporting to tech when they weren't supposed to?


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[bhudson]

For the record, Pepe Pombo did not race SSGT with a Turbo Nissan. Pepe raced a non-turbo in SSA. The "AC controlled boost" did happen at the Runoffs, I can't remember the driver's name, but it wasn't Pepe.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...I can't remember the driver's name...</font>

Doc Roberts, IIRC...

[Greg Gauper]

I thought it was one of the Sanchez (sp) boys that had the cheater car with the heater knob controlled boost?

Dr. Roberts' only transgression(s) were:

Intentionally hitting a fellow competitor's car while it was on jack stands (SSB Mazda, early 80's)

Running a 'Swiss cheese' bumper in the '85 SSC Runoffs (caught when he had contact with another car and the contact peeled the cover back)

Having non-adjustable but illegal boost in his SSA Starion.

Somebody printed up a bunch of T-shirts in the early 80's that said "Will Rodgers never met Jim Roberts".

FWIW - I think the recent Fastrack protest involving Mr. Roberts was a result of him trying to get back into racing without paying his $10K fine from the last runoffs he ran (SSA Starion).

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited November 09, 2004).]

[badal]

Originally posted by Banzai240:
Speaking of ITA cars, since his ITA 240SX seems to be a benchmark of what a 240SX is capable of, was it subjected to any scrutiny as a result of this? I've always been curious as to why his seems to be the only example of a "dominant" one in the country... Has it ever been torn down in the same manner??

He won last year and the standard tear down was done and items were found in compliance.

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"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[Greg Amy]

Could be, GregG. That's been, what, 15+ years ago?

I think that was the same incident where the winner was taking his victory lap, with a Tech observer in the pasenger seat. During the victory lap, as the driver was waving to the crowd and workers, he was reaching under the dashboard and pulling out the cable and mechanism and stuffing it in his driver's suit. The Tech rep just sat there quietly watching.

Doh!

Again, I think that was 1987 or '88, so I reserve the right of senility if innacurate. However, I still have those old SportsCars, so I could easily look it up...

[cnewman]

Originally posted by bhudson:
For the record, Pepe Pombo did not race SSGT with a Turbo Nissan. Pepe raced a non-turbo in SSA. The "AC controlled boost" did happen at the Runoffs, I can't remember the driver's name, but it wasn't Pepe.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region

Pepe actually prepared an SSGT turbo Nissan 300ZX that was driven by his late nephew, Tony Serrano. I was crewing on a SSGT Camaro back then. We had a ton of fun, and I'm glad to be racing with Pepe, Mat and Mark in SM today.

[evanwebb]

Doesn't it strike anyone else as absurd that you could "not know" that your motor has too much compression? So, you get your motor back from the pro engine builder guy and you install it and never do a compression test? Ever? Ridiculous.

[apr67]

Evanwebb,

Bob Strech has two BMW's in WC, two SM's (the 1.6 that was DQ'd and then 1.8 used in the enduro), an ITA 240, and probably several other race cars. The 240 has been torn apart atleast 3 times that I know of and passed every time.

So I don't find it hard to belive that he didn't bother to tear the head off and do a compression mesaurement on a motor he just received.

I am a friend of Bob's, and I've known him for at least 8 years. When he tells me he would not have entered with an illegal motor, I belive him.

That doesn't change the fact that he is ultimatly responsible and he is the one that has to pay the price. The same as Bob Criss did in ITB when his valves were found illegal (1995?) even though it was not his decision.

[Geo]

Originally posted by evanwebb:
Doesn't it strike anyone else as absurd that you could "not know" that your motor has too much compression? So, you get your motor back from the pro engine builder guy and you install it and never do a compression test? Ever? Ridiculous.

A compression test is no indication of the mathematical compression ratio.

Yes, a higher CR will yeild a higher compression, but so other things.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by evanwebb:
Doesn't it strike anyone else as absurd that you could "not know" that your motor has too much compression? So, you get your motor back from the pro engine builder guy and you install it and never do a compression test? Ever? Ridiculous.

Ridiculous?? No...it depends, really...

Would I test it myself?? Ummm no! That's what I paid THEM to do! Pull the head and do all the measurements and then put it all back together?? I don't think so!

Remember, he wasn't running 12:1 domed pistons or anything...it was a brand new motor...uncarboned, the jump wasn't that big. He says he dynoed it and got 2 hp more than normal. Would you tear an engine apart because it made 2 hp more?? I doubt it! Whats the standard deviation on most dynos, anyway?

That said, the penalty still needs to be made.




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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Quickshoe]

Evanwebb,

Not at all rediculous to me. Lets say I do check compression and it is okay. Do I then pull the head and check the valve sizes? Then check the bore and stroke? What about the cam lift, duration, lobe centers and profile? Rocker arm geometry? In your mind, where is a reasonable place to stop the teardown/inspection and assume that everything you didn't check is also in compliance?

[erlrich]

Originally posted by evanwebb:
Doesn't it strike anyone else as absurd that you could "not know" that your motor has too much compression? So, you get your motor back from the pro engine builder guy and you install it and never do a compression test? Ever? Ridiculous.

Ok, I've only built a handful of engines, and the current one is my first full blown race build (balancing, blueprinting, etc), but the only time I've ever seen the need to run a compression test is if I felt something was wrong with the engine. And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't compression tests used more for comparative purposes? Unless you were comparing the compression numbers against another similar engine, how would this tell if you were over by a few tenths of a point on the ratio?

I'm not defending Bob, but I think some of you guys are going a little overboard. Especially after reading Jake's thread ("A Protest Story"), I'm more inclined to believe this was most likely an oversight on the part of the builder/owner, if even that, and nothing more. Obviously, if the engine was not in compliance there need to be consequences, but I think burning at the stake is a little much in this case.

Earl

[apr67]

Originally posted by erlrich:
And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't compression tests used more for comparative purposes? Unless you were comparing the compression numbers against another similar engine, how would this tell if you were over by a few tenths of a point on the ratio?

A compression test is not a way to determine compression ratio. Compression ratio is mesaured with the head off of the engine. It is a simple process, but time consuming, and easily can be skewed by breaking procedure.

Want to know more:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46778/