Results ???

[m glassburner]

Does anybody have a contact(a cell #) of someone,anyone there??? And could post the results??

[Pellegrino Family]

I've been trying to reach Raymond Blethen on his cell but it must not have service down there and Stephen's is not working.

It stinks being up here and not know what's going on.

I will post any news I hear as soon as I get it.

[madrabbit15]

The two brothers from up north with the audis, both broke on saturday. The brother driving the red audi was involved in an incident with one famous volvo on the first laps, and the volvo was out of the race, the audi involved charged all the way back through the field only to break with two laps left. The other brother, I appologize for not knowing names, with the blue and silver audi lead for maybe five laps and broke. Hope this helps, the audis were extremely fast, but I am not quite sure they were up to the task of keeping that pace for all 20 laps.

[lateapex911]

OK...heres a few tidbits....(observations)

- ITB Raymond was pole, got a bad jump, and there was slight contact (Assumed, as there were no discernable marks on the front of the Audi) between Raymonds Audi and a VW. Sam was going around the outside and was struck by the VW. Steven got away and put some distance on the herd for a few laps, while Raymond rejoined at the back of the ITB field. Gradually the Canandians, and Chris Albin reeled in Steven who was suffering from some electrical issues. Raymond was able to pick off a few cars here and there, but Stevens electrical troubles became fatal as a wire chafed and shorted, killing the car. He coasted down the hill and into the pits. Raymond drove very well, and worked his way up to second and was about 5 seconds back when the entire wheel caliper and hub exited stage left at the entrance to the straight, never to be seen again.

The race was a great one, and hotly contested...a shame about the first lap incident, which, from the in car I saw looked like a racing incident to me. Chris Albin showed strength and pushed into the lead, but suffered a puncture and limped into the pits...nice run by the guys who may have come the furthest!

- ITA Well I was busy on track, so I didn't see much of this one, but I understand it was a barn burner. Muresaean (sp?) had mech issues and fell from his 2nd qual position (1:43.4 or so), and the race was left to Anthony Serra and Bob Stretch. Stretch led, Serra closed, they swapped spots, finally Serra made it stick and eased away. I watched the teardown of Serras car...the result was no port matching, no fancy machine work, just a spot on 40 over build, and he was pronounced the new ITA champ. Wish I could have seen it. Serra set a new hot lap of a 42.8

- SM- I saw a bit of this one...strangely, the "big one" never really materialized. The aforementioned Mr Stretch put on a clinic, and walked away at the same rate he out qualified the huge field...about a second a lap. At the finish the Queen looked down, saw the leader, and asked "Who is in second?" To which the response was "There is NO second, maam..." (A quote from the first Americas Cup regatta held off England at the Royal Yacht Squadron in the Solent).

He walked the field....after the ITA race he said..."And I thought the SM race was going to be the tough one..."

When I left the track for home at about 7PM, the Miata was in bits in the tech shed. I don't know if there was a protest or just a typical teardown. Would love to hear more...

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[bobpink]

Congrats to Serra for winning ITA. He was pretty dejected after not winning the hotly contested race last year and looks like he more than made up for it. Anyone who can plain beat Stretch and run a 1:42 is haulin'.

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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
ITS Honda Prelude

[Mattberg]

For anyone interested, Stretch did not make it through the tech shed. Jim Daniels made it through though and was awarded the title.

[R2 Racing]

It's too bad Stretch didn't make it through tech after the SM race cause he put on a display and handed a very large field with some very talented drivers its ass. I heard the rumor of why he got disqualified but I'm not in the business of spreading rumors so...

As a participant in the ITA race, I had a great view of it! I was in the bright orange #73 Integra. I got a great jump and can say I went into turn 1 side by side with Anthony....and then he blew my doors off. I fell into a knock down drag out fight for 5-7th with a CRX and a Miata that may just rank as the greatest, most fun race I've ever had. The best part is none of us have to do bodywork over the winter. I ran 5th for a little while but came out on the short end finishing 7th. I was still freaking thrilled for my first time at Road Atlanta in a first year car. So the rundown went like this:
Anthony Serra
Bob Stretch
Joe Moser
Dave Beyersdorf
Jason (i think?) Adamski
Bowie Gray
Kevin Ruck

[bhudson]

When Raymond's left front wheel departed exiting Turn 7, it bounced over the wall and down into the ravine. There were a lot of pickups after the race, so the crew at Turn 7 (F&C and EV) searched and found it. A pine tree had kept on the track property, and after retrieving the wheel, the fireman said "we found Jimmy Hoffa!"

By the way, Raymond was just one of 4 drivers to lose wheels in that race.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region F&C

[R2 Racing]

The ITB race was crazy. It was like no one wanted to win it - except for the Canada boys, eh?

They drove a great race so congrats to them.

[Mattberg]

Some of you guys are sorta' funny. I'm hearing "it's too bad about Bob", "He put on a great display..." You guys are praising him for his effort? It was a cheater car! We'll get to the cheating part in a minute...

The car was illegal as hell. I'll be kind and say "they" cheated and spare Bob the indignation of exclusive responsibility even though the driver should ultimately be responsible. Ken is just as responsible. I think a good idea would be to punish Ken severly. He built the motor and maybe he told Bob it was kosher. I'll give him that benefit of the doubt. But Bob has more responsiblity as a driver and owner than to just accept that, especially when a car is so outwardly dominant in such a close class and field. To think himself that much better a driver is pretty arrogant. No one is.

To address the act...So you know, I did get the full story from a couple of people present at tech. First cylinder they tested...11 to 1. Number two...10.8...and so on. Not even close. And no, the parts taken off were not found to be in compliance as someone else stated. And no, the compression was not attributed to extremely close factory tolerance. And no, he did not refuse to conceed because he didn't want to be an overdog. They refused to hear the appeal.

They clean up the carbon and the thing is still making 10+. One guy told me they took cleaned off so much carbon they looked brand new! So, the breakdown starts with the head, and the first couple of tests come up WAY out of tolerance. 33 versus 38 cc's, head was milled out of compliance, etc, etc.. After finding the first three or four items they didn't bother continuing and went to confiscate the logbook at 7:35 PM. See ya'.

What happened to all that tough talk about cheating? Is that reserved for new guys, guys you don't like, guys you don't know? I hear what sounds like compliments going to a guy that had HUGE warnings and indications that perhaps his car might be over the top whether he knew it or not. Even a couple of other drivers wraned him. Almost two seconds faster than everyone else? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?

I'm wondering what possesed Bob to race this car? More importantly, I'll pose the question again. What to do about cheating? I'd like to see a firm penalty for Bob and I'd really like to see Ken drummed out of the sport. Perhaps ordering breakdowns on all his motors for a year at the owner's expense? His business should dry up pretty quickly...Who'd buy one? Too harsh? Sorry Ken, should have thought about that before you started making big bucks for what was perceived to be talent not cheating. Furthermore, once a cheat, always a cheat.

Bottom line is this was a massive cheating attempt at a showcase event and all the warning signs were there. They were ignored for what? To win an amateur racing event? To try and build one's perceived talent for future pro racing endeavors? To attract sponsors to a dominant force in the sport? Who knows.

It gave the event, sport and class a blackeye. And I'd just like to see something other than praise of his driving ability in an illegal car in response to disqualification for blatant cheating. This wasn't an illegal headlight, some misplaced ballast or a broken safety item. This was by no means even close to a technicality. This was downright wholesale CHEATING. Remember that. If nothing's done I guess I'll just have to suck it up and get to work puttin' some SM stickers on the ITA car for this coming season.

I'd love to hear Bob's response as well and I'll remain open minded but... I'm sure you'll just blame Ken and that doesn't fly entirely. Don't you own a compression checker Bob? ;-)11 to 1? You've been racing a long time. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Guess he thought it was just a really good duck... :-)

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Mattberg:
If nothing's done I guess I'll just have to suck it up and get to work puttin' some SM stickers on the ITA car for this coming season.

Speaking of ITA cars, since his ITA 240SX seems to be a benchmark of what a 240SX is capable of, was it subjected to any scrutiny as a result of this? I've always been curious as to why his seems to be the only example of a "dominant" one in the country... Has it ever been torn down in the same manner??




------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[JeffYoung]

Darin, we've got a fast one here in the SEDiv now (Billy Jones). He runs near the track record in ITA at VIR.

Also, Tristan Smith is quick in his car as well. Usually top 5 or better in a very nicely built car.

[dave parker]

Originally posted by Mattberg:
Some of you guys are sorta' funny. I'm hearing "it's too bad about Bob", "He put on a great display..." You guys are praising him for his effort? It was a cheater car! We'll get to the cheating part in a minute...

The car was illegal as hell. I'll be kind and say "they" cheated and spare Bob the indignation of exclusive responsibility even though the driver should ultimately be responsible. Ken is just as responsible. I think a good idea would be to punish Ken severly. He built the motor and maybe he told Bob it was kosher. I'll give him that benefit of the doubt. But Bob has more responsiblity as a driver and owner than to just accept that, especially when a car is so outwardly dominant in such a close class and field. To think himself that much better a driver is pretty arrogant. No one is.

To address the act...So you know, I did get the full story from a couple of people present at tech. First cylinder they tested...11 to 1. Number two...10.8...and so on. Not even close. And no, the parts taken off were not found to be in compliance as someone else stated. And no, the compression was not attributed to extremely close factory tolerance. And no, he did not refuse to conceed because he didn't want to be an overdog. They refused to hear the appeal.

They clean up the carbon and the thing is still making 10+. One guy told me they took cleaned off so much carbon they looked brand new! So, the breakdown starts with the head, and the first couple of tests come up WAY out of tolerance. 33 versus 38 cc's, head was milled out of compliance, etc, etc.. After finding the first three or four items they didn't bother continuing and went to confiscate the logbook at 7:35 PM. See ya'.

What happened to all that tough talk about cheating? Is that reserved for new guys, guys you don't like, guys you don't know? I hear what sounds like compliments going to a guy that had HUGE warnings and indications that perhaps his car might be over the top whether he knew it or not. Even a couple of other drivers wraned him. Almost two seconds faster than everyone else? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?

I'm wondering what possesed Bob to race this car? More importantly, I'll pose the question again. What to do about cheating? I'd like to see a firm penalty for Bob and I'd really like to see Ken drummed out of the sport. Perhaps ordering breakdowns on all his motors for a year at the owner's expense? His business should dry up pretty quickly...Who'd buy one? Too harsh? Sorry Ken, should have thought about that before you started making big bucks for what was perceived to be talent not cheating. Furthermore, once a cheat, always a cheat.

Bottom line is this was a massive cheating attempt at a showcase event and all the warning signs were there. They were ignored for what? To win an amateur racing event? To try and build one's perceived talent for future pro racing endeavors? To attract sponsors to a dominant force in the sport? Who knows.

It gave the event, sport and class a blackeye. And I'd just like to see something other than praise of his driving ability in an illegal car in response to disqualification for blatant cheating. This wasn't an illegal headlight, some misplaced ballast or a broken safety item. This was by no means even close to a technicality. This was downright wholesale CHEATING. Remember that. If nothing's done I guess I'll just have to suck it up and get to work puttin' some SM stickers on the ITA car for this coming season.

I'd love to hear Bob's response as well and I'll remain open minded but... I'm sure you'll just blame Ken and that doesn't fly entirely. Don't you own a compression checker Bob? ;-)11 to 1? You've been racing a long time. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Guess he thought it was just a really good duck... :-)

Gee it sounds like Mattberg has some issues here.... and Who is this Ken fellow?
Anyway, congrats to Matt Pombo(sp?) on 1st in SM and Tom Long for setting the new lap record.
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[This message has been edited by dave parker (edited November 08, 2004).]

[gran racing]

Why is it that Mattberg is the one who has issues? I totally hear what he is saying.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[grayracer]

Speaking of Pombo, it was good to see this family back in the sport. Years ago, their dad, Pepe Pombo, was one of the most ....errrr...ahhhh...craetive rule interpreters around. The stuff of legends. If I recall correctly, he ran a showroom stock turbo 300zx in the mid 80's. I think he got DQ'd after winning the SSGT national championship and banned for like a year or two....all over an adjustable turbo boost wired into the AC switch.

In any event it was gooto see his kids out racing...

[This message has been edited by grayracer (edited November 08, 2004).]

[Mattberg]

Sorry Dave. Ken Murillo was the engine builder. And Yes, I've got some issues and they're issues we should all have.

Also it was Jim Daniels who ended up first in SM. Perhaps Matt Pombo won the Enduro?

[dave parker]

OOPS.
Yes mattberg you are correct. My apologies to all.
I agree that there is no place for cheating in the ARRC. Or anywhere else in IT for that matter. I was not aware who "Ken" and was trying to get more of the story.
Thanks for the clarifaction.
One point though, as the SM group has made very clear their rules are NOT based on IT rules, so isn't this discussion rather philosphical for the IT forum? Perhaps the discussion of cheating in the SM race at the ARRC is a topic for the Spec Miata board. Other than the fact that we have cheating in IT, that we must address ourselves.
Someone please help me see the relevancy.
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[lateapex911]

Interesting....

Matt- were you there?? Does this Ken work for someone or is he independant? Any other "famous" drivers use his motors??

I think the relelvency is obvious. This event is one of only two that I am aware of where there are mandatory teardowns after the race.

You only need to do a little poking around to see the deal. The winners get the heads pulled, and anything that can be checked on site with the heads off is checked and measured. The others get less...maybe an intake pulled, etc.

Knowing that, what kind of a fool would come to the event, with an engine that has even CLOSE to the limit compression? If the limit is 9.5 to 1, 9.501 punts you...

While it would be easy to think that Stretch COULDN'T have been aware, (he's been there before and survived the teardown after his A wins...plus, he's no fool), it is hard to imagine that any engine builder would be as foolish. I am very surprised at the result.

What were the sanctions??? This is a maliscious act...it needs stiff penalties.

Matt...I think that you might have mis interpreted the "Too bad" comments...I think the writers were saying that it was "Too bad he chose to compete in such a manner", not... "Too bad he got tossed, it was a great drive". Thats the way I read it at least.

Not good for him, because it makes us wonder about the ITA car...I wonder who built that motor? He commented after the ITA race that he had expected the A race to be the "easy race", not the SM race...(maybe he really thought the engine was legal?)... He was NOT a happy guy holding the 2nd place trophy....

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by grayracer:
Pepe Pombo, was one of the most ....errrr...ahhhh...craetive rule interpreters around. The stuff of legends. I think he got DQ'd after winning the SSGT national championship and banned for like a year or two....all over an adjustable turbo boost wired into the AC switch.


[This message has been edited by grayracer (edited November 08, 2004).]

Yes, he was a well known rule bender....except he didn't bend them, he snapped 'em! The example you cite is classic, but IIRC, it wasn't the only time he was tossed.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[lateapex911]

For more info, go here:http://www.specmiata.com/ubb/ultimat...ic/2/2191.html

Short story is that the engine measured OK, except the compression was high, was remeasured, and was high, but less so, again.

The engine supplier states he got the motor from a machine shop who made the mistake, and apologies were made.

Bob Stretch said he was shocked, has never run an illegal motor and thinks that a win is meaninless unless it's done legally. He waived his right to protest in exchange for the measurements.

And Mattberg is spewing invective and the thread might get locked becuase of it, so hurry over before it's too late!

I another sad tale, Jason Saliani (who I am aquanted with...but can't remember his last name spelling(!) ..he's a good guy) did his first ARRC in an SM, ran well, thought he was about 9th, and was told by an official in the pits that he should NOT go to impound. He had no idea of the T&S mess that was caused by the timing system failure, so he returned to his paddock. He was later called to tech, then handed a slip of paper tossing him from the event. For not reporting to tech after his race, of course. Seems that they finally determined he actually finished higher...sadly after 3 hours pleading his case he was rejected on the grounds that if they reinstated his position it would set a bad example.

I hope he appeals.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]