A great deal?

[sjokatt]

I came across '90 240sx fastback for $600 in great shape only problem its an auto, can this be converted to a 5speed, is it very difficult and is it legal? I want to build one for ITA.

[timrogers]

For IT, you may not convert an automatic to a stick shift as it "creates a version of the car that does not exist." Its the same issue as taking a CRX HF model and replacing the motor with one from an Si model. The VIN of all cars is coded to include all engine & transmission varients, so the swap would be easy to spot.

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[joeg]

Tim--There were no 1990 240sx(s) with manual transmissions?
WOW, I am surprised because the ITCS lists that year's car as an eligible IT car. Does it have to do with the body style?

Just curious; I agree with your rules interpretation if the body style he found only came with the auto.

[timrogers]

IIRC, there have been cars found to be illegal because they were auto-to-manual swap specials.

Tim Rogers
ITS NX2000 in the works...

[Joe Harlan]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">\"creates a version of the car that does not exist.</font>

Not quite. in 90 you could get the auto or the 5 speed.....I also think you could get there under the update back rules as long as all components were changed..

[timrogers]

ITCS Section C, 4th paragraph states:
"VIN shall correspond with the automobile classified, and will determing the model and type for competition purposes."
If the car has a VIN for an automatic, then you can't put in a 5 speed.


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Tim Rogers
-ITS NX2000 slowly in the works...

[Geo]

Originally posted by timrogers:
ITCS Section C, 4th paragraph states:
"VIN shall correspond with the automobile classified, and will determing the model and type for competition purposes."
If the car has a VIN for an automatic, then you can't put in a 5 speed.

But, you are allowed to replace components. So, how does that reconcile? With update/backdate you can replace parts on a car with those of another car on the same line of the ITCS even if the VIN indicates they didn't come with those parts.

Make sense?


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...replace parts on a car with those of another car on the same line...</font>

But, George, the auto version is not classified. In fact, auto trannies are specifically disallowed. Therefore the car does not exist on the same line, thus the swap is illegal.

Now, let's not get into arguments about whether a silly, stupid, ridiculous, 1950's sporty-car-type Secret-Car-Club rule, such swapping out drivetrains to create a model regardless if the subsequent car meets the exact specifications of an "approved" model, is a good idea or not. I'm not sure I'd have any strong opinons of such an absurd fudging rule as this. Probably.

[joeg]

Eh Tim...I asked if the fastback style in 1990 never came with a manual 5 speed.

It sounds like it did?

If so, that car for sale is legal, notwithstanding the VIN or its existing Auto tranny.

[erlrich]

Originally posted by timrogers:
ITCS Section C, 4th paragraph states:
"VIN shall correspond with the automobile classified, and will determing the model and type for competition purposes."
If the car has a VIN for an automatic, then you can't put in a 5 speed.

FWIW, the VIN # on the 240SX gives no indication as to transmission type. There is a separate ID plate that gives this info, but since the section quoted above specifically states "VIN shall correspond..." it would appear not applicable in this case.

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Earl
ITA 240SX in process

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...the VIN # on the 240SX gives no indication as to transmission type...</font>

Ding! We have a winner! That separate ID plate is not required by IT rules, so if you want to build it then by all means, it sounds like you can, legally. Just make sure that you swap over all equipment and bodywork/chassis that corresponds to the manual car.

Of course, then it goes back to your initial query of "is it very difficult"...

[mechboy]

And back to the original question. Having worked as a tech for over 10 years, and having built and swapped drivelines on a number of different cars, the answer to your question is not really.

To do a complete auto to manual conversion, there are a number of different factors, and while I have not done one specifcally on a 240sx, I have done a few already.

Things to consider:
Pedal assembly.
Clutch controls (Master cylinder, lines, etc.)Slave cylinder ( dont remember what its mounted on a 240sx)
Driveshaft (length mostly)
Console, shifter assembly
Wiring harness, speedometer, computer controls and relays.

All of the above is going to need to be added or modified. I am not sure if the 240sx unibody was set up for both models, so you will have to see about that, and that is the biggest thing, because if you have to get into modifying the firewall for the clutch master, and underneath the dash for the pedal assembly, and get it all to match, it can be quite a challenge.

You also need to look into the computer for the transmission controls and relays. Its not like the old days where everything was manually operated. Everything has to sync, or you are gonna have check engine lites on all the time.

Again in the interior you will need to get the shifter assembly, and the correct console.

So what it all boils down to, is the 600 bucks for initial car cost, added to all the parts you are going to have to find, and pull and purchase (i wouldnt buy them new obviously) and everything you are going to need to do labor wise to convert vs. the cost of simply buying a comprable 5speed model that you dont have to do anything to, really worth it. My opinion is no.

I hope that helps, I realize your post was kind of old, and hopefully you hadnt made the purchase yet.

[joeg]

Mechboy--You are correct. It is a lot of work. I have done this sort of thing and you really need a manual trans equipped donor car or forget it.

[Prince Makaha]

If you're making an IT car, going from an automatic to a manual is just a drop in the bucket in the grand old scheme of things.

I think Tim Rogers interpretation only concerns models that weren't available with a manual trans. The 240sx has always been available with both.

I'm currently building a 240sx for the street that will house a L-28et to the tune of 400hp and it's been pretty easy since I started scrounging parts from a 1984 maxima. These cars came with at least 3 engine choices in other countries.

The 240sx has a ton of crossmember mounting points and the clutch master hole is there but covered.

[TBreu007]

Auto to manual swap isn't too bad in the 240 and has been covered in depth in other boards. Check out www.freshalloy.com. It's full of people looking to make themselves feel smarter by insulting others, but its full of good info. nonetheless.