Anybody racing a 280z in ITS?

[terry]

Just bought a 76 280 with a 240 motor and gear box. The car has ground control suspension and a good cage. Should I build a 280 motor and find a five speed. Or find a 240 tub and transfer parts to a 240 tub?

Any information on car set-up, tires and pressures, brake pads & shoes, and parts resource would be appreciated.

Thanks Terry



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[x-ring]

Yeah, I race a 280 in ITS. I originally wanted to do a 240, but the cost of a good (read: no fatal rust) tub has gotten out of control, even in the southwest. I got my car from a cone chaser in AZ, the proper suspension mods had been done and it had a fuel cell and race seat, for $1550, so the economics were there. I added a cage and a few other things and I was on track. I assume that's about where you're at.

If you are new to this, I'd hunt down a 280 motor and install it. As a beginner, what you need most is seat time, and a street 280 motor is cheap. Put it in there, get your annual, and get on track. A year or two from now you can decide if you want to build that L24 and find a 240 shell.

As for the five speed, I guess it depends on your track, at all the tracks around here (except Pueblo, CO) a five speed is just a waste of weight with a 4.11:1 rear end. The straights aren't long enough to reach redline in 4th. If you have a 3.90 or 3.54, I'd definitely forget about the five speed. With a 4.38:1 it may be worth while.

For practice and warm-ups, I use 205/50/15 Falken Azenis (sp?) sports on 15x6 turbo ZX rims. Yeah, I know max wheel size is 14x7, but for warm-ups and so forth the Azenis are so cheap (>$75 ea, mounted & balanced at Discount Tire) and run times within 2 seconds of RA-1's or Victoracer's. No one has ever complained to me about practicing on illegal tires.

For qualifying and racing, I either use Toyo RA-1's or Kumho Victoracer's or Ecsta V700's on 14x7 wheels in 225/50/14. The Ecsta's seem to be the stickiest, but not by much. The RA-1's last the longest but are the most expensive of the three. I'm pretty sure you can't get the Victoracer's in 225/14 anymore, but check, I may be wrong. Spend the money to get the Ecsta's shaved and heat cycled, if you run them too hard on a dry track with full tread the first few times out they will chunk. I usually inflate to 36psig front/34psig rear. My goal is to come in at 40psig front/38 psig rear hot, so I need to adjust that for different ambient and track temperatures.

For pads I use Hawk Blue from StrictlyZ. They had the best price I found last time I ordered, and they seem to be pretty good guys, so I probably stay with them next time. The blue pads are a little hard on rotors, but you can machine rotors once, or maybe twice, and then you will probably need pads anyway. I just use Taiwan rotors from Checker Auto Parts, I tried the ones from Nissan once and couldn't tell any difference, except in cost. The pads are a little spendy, but Metal Masters, etc., will wear out a lot quicker and fade more when they’re really hot.

BTW, you need to run ducts from your air dam back to your front brakes. S30 Z brakes are marginal at best, and really benefit from all the cooling they can get. Remove the backing plates from behind your rotors. Run the best brake fluid you can and bleed often. I like the Ford DOT4 heavy duty (high boiling point and cheap and easy to find), but if you wallet allows use Motul 600 or Castrol SRF.

For shoes I use the NISMO ‘green stuff’ pads made by Ferodo. Again, I got mine last time from StrictlyZ, but I think Courtesy Nissan carries them as well. They cost about as much as the front pads, but work well and are kind to your expensive-to-replace aluminum drums. John Coffey (Beta Motorsports) told me that there are only two things to remember about brakes on an ITS Z car: Adjust and bleed. Repeat each session. That may be slight overkill, but I do it anyway. Drill two ¾” diameter holes in the face of your drums ~180 degrees apart for cooling and to make it easy to reach the star wheel. Adjust your shoes to a slight drag. If you invest in a cordless impact wrench the job goes much quicker. Just don’t get one that will over tighten you lug nuts. I use a Makita 12V, I think it will only do about 70 lb-ft with a full charge, then I finish up with a regular torque wrench. I don’t want to strip a lug or warp a rotor between sessions.

OK, enough for today. My wife says that when you get an engineer talking about some technical subject you can’t shut them off. She may be right.

Fire me an email if you want to hear any more, I’ll be glad to share what I know. I get mail at x-ring {at-sign} zcar {dot} com

Ty

Edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by x-ring (edited October 20, 2003).]

[terry]

Thanks for the information Ty. I'm all ears right now and any information would be greatly appreciated. The 280 motor sujestion is what I will end up doing. Any thing I should or shouldn't do to a 280 motor?

Thanks Terry

[x-ring]

Well, the rules won't let you do much to your engine. As far as power increase vs. time & money spent:

I'd switch to a header and 2.5" or 3" exhaust pipe. MSA has a great deal on a 2.5" exhaust system, mandrel bent 2.5", toss their muffler and use something small or just pipe, depending on your noise regulations. Have a muffler shop make you a bent exhaust tip that you can turn away from the sound control station. I run mine horizontal, pointing left or right, depending on where the microphone is. Header quality varies from junk to great; they say NISMO is the best, but I've never been able to convince myself to pony up for one. Originally I just had a 2.5 inch exhaust pipe that attached to the header, ran back about three feet, bent 45deg, and exited in front of the left rear wheel. The noise would give me a headache even with an earplug in my left ear. I'm told that it sounded great from the stands, though.

Port match the intake and exhaust. ~6 hours if you can weld and use a die grinder. Here, BTW, the better your header is the less time this step will take. Be careful with the die grinder, especially when you're doing the head.

Dump the restrictive air box and intake tube between the filter and the AFM. I used a mandrel bent exhaust tube and a K&N, but MSA and others sell a kit that is essentially the same thing. Note that you can't change the rubber hose/coupling between the AFM and the throttle body.

Get a MSD 6AL ignition and MSD coil. Use good plug wires and either Nippondenso or NGK plugs. Set you timing to around 42degrees total advance.

Try to find an intake manifold from a '75/6 model. Supposedly they are less restrictive than the '77/8 style. They are easy to tell apart, the early ones had separate runners for each cylinder, the later ones had webs between the runners.

That's all I can think of right now and lunch time is almost over. If I think of something else I'll post again

Good luck, you have my address..

Ty

[irondragon]

All the earlier replies I have read are absolutely correct. If you have a 280Z car then at least compensate for the greater weight by powering with a 280 engine. As for needing a 4 or 5 spd trans, don't be too worried about this. The L28 motor has such a wide power band that you won't see much difference until you have gotten really good on the track. For the first two years this car will teach you more than you'll ever tell it. And I think you'll really enjoy the process.
Best Regards - Bill Miskoe

[terry]

Thanks for all the information. My internet has been down for 2.5 days. I will be out of state for 11 days and then plan on using your information on the 280.

Great to get replies
Terry

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[Jiveslug]

Im curious as to what you guys think about the 280ZX. It is the same weight and motor as the 280Z but has updated brakes (4 wheel disc) and suspension. Opinons?

Jive

[Marc Henry]

I have raced a 79 280zx for 4 years now. While iy is not as light as the 240z, it does have great brakes in comparison. The racing weight is 2770 lbs. I haven't won any races but a few 2nd and some very close and fun races.

[irondragon]

Originally posted by terry:
Just bought a 76 280 with a 240 motor and gear box. The car has ground control suspension and a good cage. Should I build a 280 motor and find a five speed. Or find a 240 tub and transfer parts to a 240 tub?

Any information on car set-up, tires and pressures, brake pads & shoes, and parts resource would be appreciated.

Thanks Terry

Terry:
I agree w/ all that Ty wrote.
Something about' a cage in a tub is worth more than a tub in the weeds' or something like that.
I race a 280Z and it is a fun car. So go w/ what you have. If you need a 280 motor talk to me or to Kim Blough at Idaho Z-Car. Kim does it for $$ and does it very well. I am an amatuer type but will help you if I can. But just get it out on the track - you can add brake ducts and greenstuff when you need to.
Best Regards - Bill Miskoe

[terry]

Thanks Bill, I'm in the middle of replacing brakes, wheel bearings, and suspension bushings. The exhaust will be next. Any suggestions on where to find wheels at a good price?
thanks
Terry

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[kthomas]

Originally posted by x-ring:
Set you timing to around 42degrees total advance.

Ty

Gee, you get that from a dyno run? On the L24's we always lost power after about 36.

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katman

[x-ring]

>Gee, you get that from a dyno run?

Yeah, Katman, I did. But, I forgot to mention that I'm at 5,500 feet elevation. I don't know if that makes any difference or not. YMMV

>...what you guys think about the 280ZX

The only beef I have with the 280ZX is that I'm unaware of any reasonably priced (<$200/each) adjustable shocks. If you know of any please enlighten me.

>...wheels at a good price

Keep checking the classified ads over at zcar.com. I've bought two sets of 14x7 Enkei wheels off that board over the last two years for around $300/set.

Ty


[This message has been edited by x-ring (edited December 08, 2003).]

[jhooten]

And your black painted 2nd gen Supra wheels from eBay.

Hi Ty, how you been?

[x-ring]

I'm doing well Jerry, I found a job and all is right with the world. And you?

Actually, the black Supra wheels are Soren's. The Gold and the Black Enkei's are mine. I don't think I had tires on the gold set this last June, that's why I had to borrow his. Besides the fleet of rent-a-Miata's, he also has an ITS 240 that he races when the mood strikes him.

Which brings up a wheel option I forgot, mid 80's Supra wheels are still fairly cheap from the wrecking yard, if you are willing to look around a little bit. Size is 14x7. They just need a little work with a die grinder on the center hole to make them fit a Z hub. Maybe 15 minutes per wheel. I'd be surprised if you couldn't turn a set up for less than $50/wheel. You might not find four good ones at one yard, and the finish may be different from year to year, but as Jerry mentioned, a little black paint works wonders.

Ty

Edited for spelling.

[This message has been edited by x-ring (edited December 09, 2003).]

[irondragon]

Terry:
I have LOTS of 14x7 zero offset wheels which I want to sell. Just wait a bit while I have the tires removed and sort out what I want to keep. Then I'll sell you the surplus ones to get them out of my shop. Stay in touch - Bill Miskoe

Originally posted by terry:
Thanks Bill, I'm in the middle of replacing brakes, wheel bearings, and suspension bushings. The exhaust will be next. Any suggestions on where to find wheels at a good price?
thanks
Terry