250+ HP 325 in IT trim?

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">If we take 215 RWHP as an agreed upon #, we get a power to weight ratio of 13.26. Assuming 180 for the RX-7 we wind up with 14.90...</font>

You guys discuss this just to depress me, right?

GregA, draggin' ITS ass with a 17.8 FWHP-to-weight ratio

[This message has been edited by grega (edited February 22, 2003).]

[mazing3]

egad!

I found another thread about the super powers living within the M50.

Robbie-finally coming back in from the garage from installing my new M50. This one looks so much nicer than the old one with the exploded head. Now if I can only get all those metal particles out of the intake I'll be just about set.

[ITSRX7]

Robbie,

What I really want to get a look at is your GT3 (PS2) garage!!!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[mazing3]

sure...give me your addy and I'll mail you one of my memory card backups. All the cars in that garage have the hp clearly stated.

Right now I'm using the CLK GTR but I still think the Castrol or Denso Supra is the best car in the game. That little IS300/Altezza is strangely one of my faves as well.

I do get some flack from some folks about playing that game all the time- mostly my fiance'- but I am 100% conviced it is realistic enough to truly sharpen certain skills needed in real racing. Jump in on one of those 2 hour enduros and work on keeping your lap times within 1 second lap to lap and you get a great consistancy drill.

Between the GenII, the Integra, and the Bimmer E46 you cna have some pretty cool ITS races in your own living room.

Robbie

[Super Swift]

I love my PS2
GT3 rocks!

my favorit car (besides the F1 cars) has to be the...

1) S2000 LM
2) ZZII tomikira
3) WRX LM
4) Mazda GTP

how may of yall have gold on the last super licens test? I am yet to meet anyone (you cant meet your self) that has that.

Another fun thing to to with GT3 is see how far you can get with out ever buying a car. (if you win all gold in a licens you get a car)

[James Clay]

Originally posted by Knestis:
I will TOTALLY agree, having had a chance to watch them on the track at Summit last summer, that it is not all about power with this car. I would suggest that some of their strength comes from a really good rear suspension design that lets them use it. It's the sum of the parts.

You are definitely right. The car you probably saw at Summit had a stock engine with a cone filter, cheaper exhaust, and NO CHIP - the rear suspension is great.

However (and with due respect), telling the world how many horsies a properly tweaked 325 powerplant makes is NOT giving up the farm. It would do me no good at all to know that James' car made 210 or 270hp at the flywheel, without having the knowledge and wherewithal to find it. It might, truth be told, piss off a lot of people but (a) not anyone who isn't already upset, and ( probably not to any greater degree.

Kirk

How about this. A 2.5 Modified for World Challenge with M3 cams, higher compression, and a lot of other work averages at 270. Add EFI or Motec and you may be alb eto get more.


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James Clay
http://www.bimmerworld.com
Engineered BMW Performance
World Challenge/SCCA/BMWCCA Racecar Rental
Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts
(540) 639-9648
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[Nick Leverone]

James,

I thought I remeber 265 HP at the flywheel as a number and then you saying to me that you found another 10 HP since I had heard the 265 number, that means 275 HP at the flywheel. Were you talking about WC cars or ITS cars because I thought we were talking ITS cars? I may have been mistaken, please clarify.



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Nick Leverone
04 ITS Mazda Rx-7
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[James Clay]

I don't think I ever told anyone numbers. Customers only get them when I have a deposit for the engine usually.

If weight were added to the E36, how could some cars put it in having close to 100# of ballast already? Do you think ANYONE could convince the comp board to do it? These are serious questions.

Now for more of a rhetorical question - what happened to the other cars that dominated for so long? I think they eventually got outclassed and became less competitive. Four years ago, it was the RX-7. No weight was added. Now it is the drivers of THESE CARS THAT WERE COMPLAINED ABOUT that are heading the charge! Try winning Formula Ford without a new chassis - it doesn't happen. If weight were added to the E36, I would think based on past actions that that would just shorten the competitive life before the next hot car came out.

Look to the future. The 944S has been classed. Cars are getting faster. The E36 won't be around forever and we can all join hands and complain about the next car.

If you guys are serious, fix the system, don't fix the E36. I would go for an IT overhaul, but I have minimal interest in an E36 lynch mob.

Two more notes:
-I never said the E36 wasn't the car to have in ITS right now, I will be the first to tell you it is.
-You are only kidding yourself if you think Dino's car didn't have a custom chip in it before the ECU rule. Real development of the chassis is the difference here - we have done it and others have also. Our power doesn't come from "cheat codes" and "secret maps" inside the computer - it is a lot of research into engine component selection, a computer designed header/exhaust system, and a few legal tricks that it is obvious under visual inspection that others haven't figured out.

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James Clay
http://www.bimmerworld.com
Engineered BMW Performance
World Challenge/SCCA/BMWCCA Racecar Rental
Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts
(540) 639-9648
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[Knestis]

Originally posted by James Clay:
If you guys are serious, fix the system, don't fix the E36. I would go for an IT overhaul, but I have minimal interest in an E36 lynch mob...

I think this is where I started the weight-spec conversation 20 months or so ago. We should never be put in a situation where we have to argue specific cars' specifications and the only way to get there is to apply a prescribed system that considers the physical qualities of the vehicles in a class.

It will NEVER be perfect but it will be consistent to apply, equitable, predictable, and will result in a variance substantially smaller than that resulting from the driver skill and development variables. That is all we can ask.

Kirk

[James Clay]

Your system is for 4 Cyl only though. How about tweaking a good system in exsistance? Year-end evaluations are the only way, based on recorded finishing positions.

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James Clay
http://www.bimmerworld.com
Engineered BMW Performance
World Challenge/SCCA/BMWCCA Racecar Rental
Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts
(540) 639-9648
-----------------------------------------------------------

[Knestis]

You lean this way but I guess that I am more of a fundamentalist about the downsides of adjusting car specs based on on-track performance. Philosophically, I just hate to even start down the road that ends with a system that ihnerently punishes well-developed cars driven by people with skills.

With IT2, I narrrowed the bandwidth of the technology that had to be equalled (by restricting the conversation to one "type" of car) so it was a heck of a lot easier to level things, than would be the case with the top end of ITS - with few different models of disparate type.

What has NOT been tried is a true statistical analysis of an entire season's worth of finishing positions. Some protocol would have to be established for considering the influence of DQs - assuming we were tryint to adjust only for on-track performance - but it would be entirely possible to see if any particular model in a class is disproportionately competitive on a national basis, considering the number and make of other cars entered.

I should be able to tell you what type of statistical test to apply but all of my applied research has been qualitative so that knowledge went "poof". My stats teachers would be disappointed in me...

K

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by James Clay:
If weight were added to the E36, how could some cars put it in having close to 100# of ballast already?


-You are only kidding yourself if you think Dino's car didn't have a custom chip in it before the ECU rule.

James- I have much respect for your work, your accomplisments and your open minded approach here on the site.

But...I'm having trouble rectifying the whole weight issue in my head on the E-36. How is it possible to pull so much weight off the car, but then have issues with the 100 pound ballast rule. If you were forced to run a higher race weight, wouldn't it be possible to leave more weight on in the first place? The GCR doesn't require the complete stripping of the chassis, although it allows certain things.

On point 2- Man, you hit the nail on the head here!!! When the whole ECU issue is debated, and the argument of "Show me the statistics that ECU cars are winning now that weren't earlier" is forwarded, it is an impossible debate point because of the lack of a control in the experiment. As you pointed out, we have no idea who was and who wasn't running illegally.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[James Clay]

Easier to remove rather than install... We can add the spare tire back, but what then and still make it a clean, safe racecar? Seats shouldn't go in or carpet, door panels are light, I can imagine the issues with sound deadening being re-installed It is hard to figure out where the whole bunch came from, but it could be done. My car needed a spare and no ballast for weight due to some of the other work we did on it. The ARRC 20# weight was insurance.

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James Clay
http://www.bimmerworld.com
Engineered BMW Performance
World Challenge/SCCA/BMWCCA Racecar Rental
Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts
(540) 639-9648
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