spec tire for it-7

[Andy Bettencourt]

New shocks AND a revalve AND new sway bars for a swap from Hoosiers to Toyo's?

I am calling BS on all of it. Please educate us on the technical issues involved. Unless your current package is designed to run within the most finite parameters...

Come on now. Send us some knowledge here.

Andy

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

It raised my eyebrows as well....I had thought that there were dampers out there with enough adjustability to find the right setting, as well as swaybars that are adjustable as well.

I can see a spring change, but lots of guys change springs for different tracks, so it's possible those might be in " the quiver", but if not, 4 springs are what, $260?

Of course, I guess I must be leaving time on the track...but thankfully I am blissfully unaware of my tuning inabilities, or I'd be more financially tortured than I am!

Even still, I would gladly buy new springs, adjust my bars and dampers on a few test days in order to eliminate a few sets of tires a year. At $800 a set, it adds up fast.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[instigator]

ok don't belive, but go to tech talk "question for guys runnig hoosier r3s40is"by ben84 rx7 and hear it from another source on the same type of issue. checkit out maybe they will explain it

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by instigator:
ok don't belive, but go to tech talk "question for guys runnig hoosier r3s40is"by ben84 rx7 and hear it from another source on the same type of issue. checkit out maybe they will explain it

Actually, I was hoping YOU would explain it. It's obvious that changes need to be made but to say that it would cost you $1K to go to Toyo's...please.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited January 24, 2005).]

[instigator]

i gave you a site to go to. did you check it out, and if you are aquanted with flat out m.s you would know the work involved in correcting suspensions for tires .others that race i.t seem to know.due some research .

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ahhhh, I get it. You are just quoting Greg's post from that thread...and he says what HE did. No technical explanation, just "what he said".

I get it.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by moto62:
The Toyos are one or two secs slower than the Hoosiers. Spending a cool thou redoing your suspension isn't going to get you back those seconds.

RAY, even if the Toyo's are 1-2 seconds slower, and everyone uses them, there is no need to get all of those 1-2 seconds back. All you need to do, is optimize your suspension rates/alignment for the toyos. If you get .5 second back that your competition doesn't, it is your advantage.

That being said. I believe that the tuning range available with current "Hoosier optimized suspension" will certainly have the optimum Toyo set-up within that range of adjustablitly/revalving. So $1000/parts--don't think so. $1000 in seat time/testing to optimize for Toyo's? Probably, at least that. However, you don't need to find the optimum setup--all you need to be is ahead of your competition in finding it.

Tires are a highly consumable item (no suprise there) you will be ahead of the game before the season is over.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
However, you don't need to find the optimum setup--all you need to be is ahead of your competition in finding it.

This is my favorite thing you have ever written. No truer words have been written.

It's why, in 4 years, we haven't missed a test day prior to a race.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[moto62]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
RAY, even if the Toyo's are 1-2 seconds slower, and everyone uses them, there is no need to get all of those 1-2 seconds back. All you need to do, is optimize your suspension rates/alignment for the toyos. If you get .5 second back that your competition doesn't, it is your advantage.

Totally in agreement here.

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
That being said. I believe that the tuning range available with current "Hoosier optimized suspension" will certainly have the optimum Toyo set-up within that range of adjustablitly/revalving.

Exactly.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Originally posted by Quickshoe: $1000/parts--don't think so. $1000 in seat time/testing to optimize for Toyo's? </font>

Priceless. Now let's see if we can get the "instigator" to understand this.
Ray


[This message has been edited by moto62 (edited January 24, 2005).]Had to fix quotes(duh!)

[This message has been edited by moto62 (edited January 24, 2005).]

[instigator]

okay for those of you so smart car #59 at the arrc is one of my cars it qualifyed on toyos and raced on them as well. a broken wheel and luck let the driver finish 6th. if you dont think that all the changes make a differance lets see you turn a 1.476 at road atl on toyos. with out the proper changes to your suspension you will not see those times .

[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 24, 2005).]

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[Andy Bettencourt]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Since you are responsible for the development of the car, tell us what differences the changes made, and why. We find your assertion unreal, so were are trying to learn. Educate us, seriously.

Oh, and signing your name might help.

BTW: My experience is with Miata's (Toyos), ITS RX7's (Goodyears and Hoosiers) and a World Challenge E36 BMW (Toyo's and Goodyears). Currently, our top team car holds 3 track records. We have been known to change springs AFTER winning the POLE.



AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[instigator]

look i have a second car that has been set up for the hoosier tires and those numbers you all joke about are the real cost in converting the car over to the other stander of tire.ther are huge differances in both of the suspension in regard to spring rates and jounce and rebound in the struts along with sway bar differances. and i also for got the change in the rear gear 550 dollars add that in as well. specifics? naa.you will have to learn those on your own must keep one up on the comp.

[Boswoj]

Instigator

OK - I think most here have been willing to not judge you based on your inability to convey your ideas through the written word. I would say that those same folks have encouraged you to participate in spite of what comes across as a rude, abrasive, and inflexible personality, while not imposing similar attitudes on you. You should re-read your own posts some time from the perspective of those who don't know you from adam. If you are going to make statements that draw doubt, and even ridicule, be prepared to back them with at least SOME logical reasoning! You remind me of guys who show up DEMANDING respect for their great knowledge, assuming you can baffle all us idiots who don't know anything about cars. I would be happy to buy into your BS if you were willing to actually offer a detailed description that convinced me that you were right. Instead you keep referring to "your" two cars and how successful they are. You might have noticed that there are several people here that have both recognizable names, AND some measure of success! For the most part, the people that you are disagreeing with are guys that have been willing to help everyone by posting EXTREMELY detailed info for years. I, and I'm guessing most of the posters here, have spent a few hundred hours disassembling and reassembling race cars - don't float your crap here and expect everyone to agree to it as if we didn't know which end of the screwdriver to use. I personally wouldn't trust someone to bleed my brakes or torque my lugs who is incapable of learning complicated tasks like using the shift key, but that's just me.

Rick Bostrom
ICSCC #155
(Note the signature - it matches the one in my profile, so people know who I am - hint!)

[This message has been edited by Boswoj (edited January 25, 2005).]

[instigator]

look i gave you enough information for you to start you own developement, tell me whay you are looking for and i will give you the best answer i can and as for the name calling or ,"BS" as you call it. you are the only one who has made an attempt to belittle any one. if you wish to know who i am look on the scca web due research.i claim to be no one special. just a racer. i also make no claim to be the best drive . i just give the facts based on personal experiance with my cars.

[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 25, 2005).]

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by instigator:
okay for those of you so smart...

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by instigator:
you are the only one who has made an attempt to belittle any one.

Not so certain about that one.

Since you are willing to give some facts.

Can you please start us off with.

What spring rate are your "Hoosier" bars full soft and full hard?

What spring rate are your "Toyo" bars at when "optimized" for dry condtions at Rd. Atl.?



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Daryl DeArman
ex ITA and EProd 1st gen Rx7 and ITA Mk1 MR2
current owner of a FV, who still visits this site because the Vee forums aren't near as fun.--and no there isn't anything to do on my Vee right now or I'd be doing it

[instigator]

are you asking for the tire sring rate?
i can tell you that the car with hoosier has a 350lb front spring and the car that runs toyos has a 375lb spring in the front

[Quickshoe]

Actually, I was asking what your bar spring rates were at their full soft and full hard settings with the Hoosiers. Also, where you found the optimum bar setting for the Toyos, what was that bar spring rate?

[instigator]

i belive you are attemptig to ask what sway bar thickness i am using .if this is not what you are askng .i need an explination of the term.i have got a better way to settle this come to atl drive both cars see the differance in the set up and swap the tires "as suggested".then get prices and see if the cost i gave is wrong,or if the changes are unnessary based on your feel and times in the cars a lot of devlopment is done by trail and error and you tell me if one car works with the modifications that differ from the other why those changes would not be made to the other.

[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 25, 2005).]

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[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 25, 2005).]

[Mike Guenther]

I just had to laugh..............