spec tire for it-7

[Boswoj]

Guys, let me just say that I'm not going after anyone here. I come here because when I'm not actually racing, I like to talk about racing or working on the car (kind of a one trick pony, huh?). I give and get lots of great ideas here, and the occasional lively discussion is just a bonus.

I like just about any idea that cuts cost without hurting the overall competitiveness of racing. The truth is, the tire manufacturers are just giving us what we want and it's up to us to rethink why we want it! Racing has never been cheap, but it is currently headed towards being even more exclusionary because of the advance of technology. Sophisticated suspensions, incredible engine and drivetrain development, and unreal advances in tire technology have all come at a cost. Street cars now perform better than the last generation's race cars, and racecars are significantly lowering lap records all over the planet. One of the biggest developments has been tire technology, and one of the biggest costs has been the accompanying tire budget. REAL IT racing means large, closely matched grids of "relatively" affordable cars. If the SCCA really wanted to start equalizing perfomance potential on IT cars they could slow cars up with tire requirements a whole lot quicker than with weight or intake restrictors! (shhhh! No! i'm not suggesting anything of the sort - just establishing a point!) I don't have an axe to grind with ANY of the tire suppliers as I have at least tried most of them and all make a pretty damn good tire for the track. If anything, one of the best reasons to have a spec tire is to go to the manufacturers and let them bid to become your spec tire supplier - most affordable gets the nod, and a guarantee of good sales volume for a year.

Come on now - that extra set of tires cost as much as four race entries around here. I would rather run ten races at 1:42 laps in a pack with all my friends, than run six at 1:40. But hey, that's just me.

Boswoj


[This message has been edited by Boswoj (edited December 27, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Boswoj (edited December 27, 2004).]

[GEO46]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:
[B Which makes me wonder why the concern? This is a SEDiv class, and if the change is made it will only effect us.
[/B]

Oh wait a minute, we also run IT7 here in Cendiv. While I personnly don't have a dog in this fight, (hoping to run a converted IT7 in EP), several of my friends do. We figure to run up front, you need Hoosiers. Just part of the cost to play the game.

[Andy Bettencourt]

IT7 is a Regional class. Each Div can do WHATEVER THEY WANT. If you feel a spec tire is a good thing, DO IT. If not, vote it down.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[ddewhurst]

It's my understanding the IT7 is a sub class to ITA & has the exact same rules as ITA.

Have Fun
CenDiv ITA/7 #14
David

[Andy Bettencourt]

It is a sub-class - but it is REGIONAL only. That means it can be changed per the majority decision of the competitors in that Region. If you want a spec tire, no problem. If you want wings, no problem - it just has to be voted on and rubber-stamped by your local comp-board.

IT7 doesn't exist in the rulebook, it's a class that was formed because the 1st gen RX-7 isn't competitive in ITA. Each region who runs it just adopts the ITA rules - they don't have to.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Hotshoe]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
IT7 doesn't exist in the rulebook, it's a class that was formed because the 1st gen RX-7 isn't competitive in ITA. AB

[/B]

.Come on Andy, how about cutting us some slack. Let us amend this to say: it is a class that was formed because the 1st gen RX-7 drivers want to compete with only themselves. That is the REAL reason.
...Having our own class made it easier to police the entrants. Make specific tools to check ports. And train tech inspectors how to check carburetors, exhaust ports etc.
...So let us get rid of this notion before some people start to believe it. And anyway, we in the SEDiv do not have much trouble with ITA cars. So we will let that horse rest in peace.
....I have been here since IT7s conception and still think it is a good idea for our region considering we had over 70 cars entered in this class last season.
...And in keeping in line with this thread I think we should have more of a choice.

__1. Should IT7 have a Spec Tire: Yes/or/No

__2. If So, Please choose one: A.B.C.or D.

Then let the majority rule.

...Instead of what we got: Yes Toyo /or/ No

This is the SCCA not Russia



[This message has been edited by Hotshoe (edited December 27, 2004).]

[Mike Cox]

I too have been in IT7 since the beginning.

The way the spec tire ballot is worded is "Toyo or no Toyo", No alternatives!

Rick runs Hoosier along with many other SEDIV IT7 drivers and Steve Saney, I and others run Kuhmos. That is our choice based on the way the class was organized under IT rules.

By forcing me and Steve (and others running Kuhmos) to run Toyos, it will impeed our ability to receive contingency money as we have for the past few years from our "preferred" tire manufacturer. Therefore, it will greatly deter us from racing and therein will be detrimental to the class instead of expanding the class as we all should focus on.

I run Kuhmos for two reasons:
First and foremost, they are fast! (real close to Hoosiers)
Second when I win a regional race, I get $150.00 credit from Kuhmo towards more tires.
3 wins in a regional weekend = $450.00.

A new set of 205/60-13 Kuhmos delivered cost me $540.00.

Why should I be penalized because I have:
1. worked harder on my car.
2. worked harder on my setup.
3. am able to drive my car harder knowing I will have enough money to buy another set.

It comes down to this and excuse me if this sounds arrogant:

if you want to run with the SEDIV regional and SARRC Champions, put up the money like we do or shut up.

Don't try to brings us down, improve and catch up to us.

Mike Cox
2000,2002 & 2004 CFR IT7 Regional Champion



[This message has been edited by Mike Cox (edited December 27, 2004).]

[Quickshoe]

How many IT7 racers in the SE Div are we talking about? If you had a choice of several compounds becoming the spec tire what are the chances that one would receive a majority vote?

If you would support a spec tire but not the choice of TOYO then mark your ballot "NO"...if enough don't want the Toyo the spec tire, it won't pass and you could continue to use your tire of choice.

You could also submit another proposal that says would you approve the use of only the following compounds? "Kumho V710, V700 or Toyo Proxes RA-1"

It is not Russia that is why it is being voted on.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:

.Come on Andy, how about cutting us some slack. Let us amend this to say: it is a class that was formed because the 1st gen RX-7 drivers want to compete with only themselves. That is the REAL reason.

OK, two reasons it is then.....

...Having our own class made it easier to police the entrants. Make specific tools to check ports. And train tech inspectors how to check carburetors, exhaust ports etc.

None of which is any real indication of true legality....

...So let us get rid of this notion before some people start to believe it. And anyway, we in the SEDiv do not have much trouble with ITA cars. So we will let that horse rest in peace.

Unless you run at Road Atlanta, where the fastest 7 was many seconds off the ITA pace...

Ask the guys in CenDiv about the reasons THEY started the class......I doubt that "horse" will ever rest.


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited December 27, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited December 27, 2004).]

[Hotshoe]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Unless you run at Road Atlanta, where the fastest 7 was many seconds off the ITA pace...

[/B]

...And for the record, how many second were you off the IT7 pace? I believe it was four, right?
...Now lets see, you are going to come back with something like "Well I did not see you there" And you are right, you did not.
...So before you stick your foot in your mouth let me inform you that I had plans to go. A crew of my best friends were going to go to support me and my efforts but, I had a set back earlier this year concerning my wife and so my priorities were in line and racing took a back seat.
...Look at it this way, I am involved as to what goes on in my region and my class. I know why it was founded and those that made it possible. And I also know the reason it was started. So if I tell you and you don't believe me then what is your problem.
...I remember two things that you said in some other posts that I would like to reiterate on. One was that you may make the trip to VIR and, the other was that you wanted moved to ITB because you were tired of the ITA cars "handing you your a$$"
...Tell you what. I hope I'm able to be there. Maybe Mike, Steve, Brian, Don, Bob, Paul, and Robert will tell you the same thing about IT7. Then will you believe it?
...You will also get to see the ITA cars get handed their a$$e$.
...If you make things up after you learn the truth what does that make you?

Enough said.....

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:
...And for the record, how many second were you off the IT7 pace? I believe it was four, right?

What does MY time at the track have to do with anything? Have I ever said I was the fastest car or the best driver? A Road Atlant expert? NO! My comments are based on the fact that an RX-7 has NEVER run at RA anywhere near the front. Period. And around the country, where ITA has strong cars, the situation is similar.

...Now lets see, you are going to come back with something like "Well I did not see you there" And you are right, you did not.

I don't see how your presence (or lack of) at the event has much to do with the fact that the 7s were seconds off the pace.

...Look at it this way, I am involved as to what goes on in my region and my class. I know why it was founded and those that made it possible. And I also know the reason it was started. So if I tell you and you don't believe me then what is your problem.

Exactly...you know your region. But in other parts of the country, IT7 was incorporated for other reasons. Reread my post...where did I say anything about not believing you? I think I said that there were TWO reasons.

...I remember two things that you said in some other posts that I would like to reiterate on. One was that you may make the trip to VIR and,....

VIR sounds like a fun track...we are seeing what the schedule holds for the year. Thanks for the invite.

...If you make things up after you learn the truth what does that make you?

Enough said.....

I don't follow...make things up? Am I making things up about CenDiv? Please explain clearly with less veiling.




------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Quickshoe]

For those of you (plural) who find it more about the ride than the race:

Please explain to me why you stop at "IT" levels of prep. So I can see it from another perspective---not trying to be a smartass eventhough it may sound that way. Why wouldn't you throw a set of slicks on it and go even faster in production?

[GEO46]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
IT7 is a Regional class. Each Div can do WHATEVER THEY WANT. If you feel a spec tire is a good thing, DO IT. If not, vote it down.

AB

True, my point in qouting "Hotshoe", was that he made it sound as if IT7 was ONLY a SeDiv class. I just wanted to point out that it just isn't so.

GEO46

[GEO46]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Ask the guys in CenDiv about the reasons THEY started the class......I doubt that "horse" will ever rest.

[/B]

My perception on the origin of IT7 in CenDiv was that we were tired of the Hundas. They were either A:miss classed, B: superior chassis/engine that responds better to ITA mods, or C: miss classed. You vote on which. Okay, that was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but not much.

Which "tire" would I vote on? All of the above. Need I say I'm against a spec tire????

GEO46

[GEO46]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
For those of you (plural) who find it more about the ride than the race:

Please explain to me why you stop at "IT" levels of prep. So I can see it from another perspective---not trying to be a smartass eventhough it may sound that way. Why wouldn't you throw a set of slicks on it and go even faster in production?

Hmmm, I think I JUST MIGHT DO THAT IN 05. Not that I'm tired of IT7, and I'll keep being involved as a crewperson/maybe even as a Co-driver.

Still, that is my plan for 05. Take an ill prepared IT7, gut the door, add windshield clips... etc. Bolt on a set of slicks and go. Talk about challenging yourself?


So, put that in your smoke and pipe it!!!

GEO46

[Quickshoe]

Going to EP with an underdeveloped IT car on slicks will be evident that you are, indeed, more into the ride than the race. I won't understand why, but at least you are having fun. That must be the WHY. To each his own.

I don't have much of a problem with others having differing opinions. I ask about the reasons for their opinion in an attempt to see another side of the issue and get a response like yours....tells me more about you than the stance against the issue.

Pass the pipe Geo46 you've been Bogart'n for too long

[Hotshoe]

Originally posted by GEO46:
True, my point in qouting "Hotshoe", was that he made it sound as if IT7 was ONLY a SeDiv class. I just wanted to point out that it just isn't so.

GEO46

...Whoa Now, I'm just making it known that the vote on a Spec Tire is only going to effect us here in the SEDiv. Since this is only a Regional class.
...I wish you luck in your EP venture. If I didn't have so much work into the detail on my IT7 car I would join you. I have driven an EP RX7, it's quite a bit different with slicks. You will enjoy it.

...Rick Thompson

[racerpepe]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:
Boswaj,
...Let me clue you in on what exactly is happening here since no one has.
...Blair Stitt (an IT7 Driver) is sending out a ballot to vote for a spec tire. The only choice is Toyo RA-1s. That is the only choice.
...That is where the problem starts. I couldn't care less about the spec tire deal. Doesn't matter. Truth is Blair doesn't like Hoosier, thus the meaning for my comment.
...Instead of compromising all the other brands why not tell the truth and Ban the one you don't like. I think it might push the maker of the tire to maybe better it's product.
...To exclude all, is not fair to the suppliers. But to chastise one until they get in line is better business. And thus better for all of us.
...Steve started this thread because he runs Kumhos. Good tire, why can't it be a choice? I hear of no problems with any other tire so why not address the problem directly and confront Hoosier? Instead of disguising it with a (what did you call it? whiney? poorly conceived?)ballot.
...I believe we all should have a choice. Maybe even more than one. Not based on one persons prejudice.

...Now you know the rest of the story...

...Rick Thompson


[This message has been edited by Hotshoe (edited December 26, 2004).]

Ricky don't put words in my mouth. i love hoosiers. hate the price. i never claimed to be 1/2 the driver you are. growing clases spec rx-7 spec miata. best racing trans-am -spec tire. world challange spec tire. hoosier pays you. i haven't heard of you giving that money to a noodle eating racer so he/she can afford the same deal you get. toyo everyone gets the same deal no favoritism. hoosier is a great tire but it is a slick with 2 grooves. hardley what was intended when the rules called for a DOT tire. try to get your car inspected with those. IT-7 was started to help equlize cars. can anyone say crx. IT-7 was started by drivers for drivers. i want to see IT-7 grow like some of the other classes mentioned. the poorly concieved ballot is pretty much the same way IT-7 was started. how soon we forget. if the majority do not want a spec tire so be it. i'm not going to wine about not getting my way this is for IT-7. my slow midpack self will still toyos. with the money i save i'm going on a 2 week cruise. i guess i'll see you there because you are twice the driver i am and win free tires.thanks for your time and vote yes or no. p.s. Ricky if you want to put any other words in my mouth you have my # blair

[racerpepe]

almost forgot fyi last set of toyos $492.00 mounted balanced and shaved by appalachian tire at the track. any other ideas on improving IT-7 talk to your fellow drivers this is our class. lets have fun out there. i know i will. my tow vehicle is a yellow and white ambulance for pete's sake. stop by i'll buy you a beer. thanks again please vote yes or no.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by racerpepe:
..... IT-7 was started to help equlize cars. can anyone say crx. blair

If I read this correctly here is an SE guy who is crediting the CRX with the origin of IT7.

Now...I am sure I'll hear how he's all wet, but you all can see how such a concept might be common...if the guys who were responsible for the class think it's cause the car can't compete with the top ITA car (s)....



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]