Any suggestions for digital video camera

[ishod]

I would like to purchase an affordable digital video camera and mounting system for the race car. I really don't have the time to research this purchase and would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone that has some experience.

Scott Goble
Ozark Mountain Region - IT7 #33
[email protected]
(417) 848-7584

[Speed Raycer]

The I/OPort systems seem to work very well... but if you buy the right recorder, one with image stabilization, you can go pretty low tech on the mount. We used a flat piece of aluminum mounted to the cage with muffler clamps in my brothers SSC Neon last year. With my JVC camera using the stability feature, the pics were great.

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Scott
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

[ishod]

Hey Scott,

Thank you for your input! I'm also interested in any ideas that anyone might have for manufactured mounting hardware. Anyone have any suggestions for specific brands / makes of cameras that are reasonably priced right now, that work for both in-car and out???

[Eagle7]

I've never seen a deal on them, but I like my Sony TRV-250 a lot. 1 hour tape (1.5 hours on lower quality). Digital - good for making DVD's. Steady-shot works great. If you've got another $100 the TRV-350 gives you more options.

I use the IO-Port mount with the rubber removed.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[moto62]

Here's what I use. Crystal clear video. Will have some vibration if the camera is not properly strapped on the IO Port cam mount.
http://www.nextag.com/SONY_DCR_TRV140_Digi...v140zmainz2-htm

Ray

[lateapex911]

Better yet, get a lipstick camera, and plug it into your camcorder, which you can mount low, in a sate location, perhaps with a little padding.

Basically, trade the mount money for the lipstick camera. Pretty close dollarwise, and the lipstick has a better feild of vision and is easier to mount to boot.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Tom Blaney]

lipstick camera?

How do they work, can they be plugged into a laptop?

What are the costs?

[gsbaker]

We are growing weary of customers contacting us, telling us about the "bit hit" they had, only to learn that there is no video.

Anyone know of a supplier of video packages for racers, i.e. cameras w/ or w/o mounts with optional lipstick cams?

BTW, I've used the lipstick setup in the past. Very cool. Just put the camera in a padded Pelican case, attach the case inside the cockpit with a large Velcro patch, and run the leads to the external lens.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[lateapex911]

Gregg's got it nailed. A buddy of mine just picked one up for about $80, including the microphone. Small and easy to mount, you can choose your field of vision, which is a big advantage, as most camcorders are really over-lensed. That is, they can't pull back far enough and shoot a decent wide angle shot. (Adapter lenses, such as a .62 multiplier are available)

But the main benefit is getting the camera into a low-shock location. When Ray Lee punched me in the fender/door as I went by his spinning Acura at NHIS, the video showed.......a blank second, then suddenly I was in the grass trying to get back to my place on the track! Mounting the camera in a shock absorbent case would have avoided that.

So, the little lipstick gives a better view, less vibration, more mounting options, easier mounting, and better crash protection for the camera.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[moto62]

Originally posted by lateapex911:

But the main benefit is getting the camera into a low-shock location. When Ray Lee punched me in the fender/door as I went by his spinning Acura at NHIS, the video showed.......a blank second, then suddenly I was in the grass trying to get back to my place on the track! Mounting the camera in a shock absorbent case would have avoided that.

Hey! My camera never skipped a beat
Ray

[Scott Nutter]

For three years I have used a Sony 8mm camcorder mounted to a Bogen 3025 Tripod Head (~$25), mounted to some aluminum U channel mounted to my roll cage with a muffler clamp. It has always worked great, unless of course I don't make sure it is good and tight, if I don't then by the end of the race the camera is sometimes looking out the side window

After leaving the camera out in the rain the last time, the sound quit working, so I bought the Sony TRV-350, the only major difference I see between this and the TRV-250 is the backwar compatibility of playing analog 8mm tape, which I have 15 years of, otherwise I would have gone with a DV recorder.

Personally I think the Sony stabilization is top notch, and if this camera lasts as long as my last two (~7 years each) then I will have no complaints.

If you are looking at getting your first camcorder, definatly go with a DV. And if you are really anal about weight, get one with the option of recording onto a memory card.

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by Scott Nutter:
...I bought the Sony TRV-350, the only major difference I see between this and the TRV-250 is the backwar compatibility of playing analog 8mm tape, ...

The TRV-250 has no recording input jacks (only records through the lens) - I think the 350 does. Gives you the flexibility of recording off a VCR to copy tapes, or perhaps to use a lipstick camera.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[ishod]

Well I feel like an idiot. I clicked on "Post New Topic" instead on "Post Reply". So I accidently started a new thread. I'll try to get the administrator to delete it.

[This message has been edited by ishod (edited January 20, 2004).]

[ishod]

Thank you everyone for the input. I really like the idea of the lipstick camera and will be sure that is a part of the system. I certainly want to have a digital device. Is there anyone out there that would like to sell there old DVD recorder? Take the cash and upgrade your system before next season???

[jake7140]

- the recorder:
an older 8mm deck mounted low and stiff. Sony EVO-210 or similar. EVO-210s were used by the Air Force for fighter cockpit recording. The EV-C8 is the "lighter-duty" consumer version that I use, but seems to work just fine. There are also a couple of other 12v models, and newer EVO-220. Mine has a full function corded remote for easy on/off, and no auto-shut-down after x minutes because it does not have standby mode. New camcorders are quick loading, so in standby the heads are running on the tape, and the units must shut down so they don't eat the tape. When they shut down, you must re-power up.
- The power: grab a circuit in the car, put a manual switch on it, then wire in the cams. Lipsticks run off the straight 12v, camcorders need the adapters that clamp on in place of the battery. If you have a main power switch, you can then easily get aroug the aforementioned standby/shutdown problem. Don't forget proper fusing.
- The cams:
I use multiple lipsticks through a switcher mounted on the dash, then into the deck Let's you mount up various views, then pick them on the run. Cams-only run about $70, wired into the 12v system, then run a separate audio-in for steady audio through out, or get the cams with built-in audio. The x-10 cams are poor quality, 380 lines and 3.6mm or 3.7mm lens seems good view angle. I get the ones with the tilt/swivel stand, then mount that to a muffler clamp for roll bar attachment, or zip-tie them anywhere. A little Velcro and you've got a helmet cam. (next year)

I also throw in a regular (tape transport broken) camcorder for video and sound input. These can be had frairly cheap too. As long as it gives video/audio out, that's all you need.

Any other type cam with analog in will serve the same purpose as my deck. Just be sure you can still work it from the driver seat while in VTR mode. The controls work differently than when it is in normal hand-cam mode. An option that may ease operation is one of the LANC controls (assuming the camcorder has LANC). They vary from $65 to $100 (and way up) for various features. The $65 one has one button that you press multiple times for different functions. This seems like it could get confusing if in a hurry though.

I'm waiting for video to memcard though, to get rid of any tape to head movement!

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Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>

[ishod]

Steve,

Excellent! I'll use this as a step-by-step manual. Thanks VERY much. What do you think about using a digital camera instead of the analog? Or does it make more sense from a cost (or other) standpoint to use analog in the car and convert it to digital on my home computer (it has a DVD recordable drive).

Thanks again everyone!
Scott

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by ishod:
...What do you think about using a digital camera instead of the analog? Or does it make more sense from a cost (or other) standpoint to use analog in the car and convert it to digital on my home computer (it has a DVD recordable drive).

In order to get the analog video into your computer you'll need some kind of video capture hardware. To get the digital video into your computer you need a matching digital interface. My Sony TRV has a 1394 (Firewire) interface - got a firewire card at Wal-Mart for ~$30, and a cable for another $10 or so. It also has a USB interface, but the quality is lower. Digital makes the transfer to computer easier, and no degredation in quality.

So far, I've found the conversion to MPEG-2 for burning DVDs to be the biggest quality degredation. Noticable artifacts on the big screen that aren't there when piping the camera's analog output into the TV. Still better than VHS tape though.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[This message has been edited by Eagle7 (edited January 21, 2004).]

[jake7140]

Scott,
Can't speak to digital as I'm on the low end, but the dv cams still record to a tape. General concensus seems to be they work fine, so the mechanism is probably more robust than an older 8 or hi-8 cam.

As Marty indicates digital transfer is easier/faster to pc. Capture cards are OK, but you must capture real-time, USB capture devices are questionable, they must be at least USB 2.0 to have any chance of working decently from my limited research. I'm open to real-world experiences though!

Quality depends a lot on frames per second you record/capture at and the file format. AVI is raw video (no compression), and as such is better if you want to edit the vids later, but they're BIG. If the dv cam records into a MPEG format, it's already compressed, so doing any editing or reconverting loses quality (compression of compression). YMMV

But basically, the earlier you can get it to digital the better/easier to work with on a pc. So if you're using just one cam, go dv, if the dv camera has analog inputs (I don't know if any do), that would seem to be good to use as a recorder, then feed in the multiple lipsticks through the switcher.

Like most things, it comes down to dollars. I'm just cobbling things together as I go, with whatever I can lay my hands on. It works OK, good enough to fill the cold winter with memories, and save more permanently that VHS. Now I need a good editor to create dvds with tiles, etc. OH, yeah, and something faster than a celeron 400mhz, a dvd burner, etc. Santa may have to make a late visit!

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Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>