2nd gen rear spoiler legality

**ITSRX7** · 08-01-2003, 01:44 PM

First thing: I don't mean for this to get into a debate, I am just looking for the information that I have been told is contrary to my position and I want to take both and make an educated choice...

I have the Series 4 'duck-bill' spoiler on my car from the 86 Sport Package. I was told by Kip V. that the Southeastern guys went through the whole protest thing and it was determined that it was illegal.

Please help me understand why. The actual model year brochure shows the spoiler and side skirts as STANDARD equipment on the Sport Model. Other FACTORY brochures show the Sport model with the equipment installed.

Has it been determined that this model was created at the dealer-level and therfore illegal as they would constitute 'dealer installed options' instead of factory pieces?

Everything I can come up with shows this stuff as factory. Help me out!

Thanks,

AB

PS: None of my local competitors have said anything, further leading to my belief it's legal BUT I want to be proactive AND 100% legal.

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited August 01, 2003).]

**Bill Umstead** · 08-01-2003, 02:29 PM

Andy,

You raise a good question.

I just checked the 2003 GCR and the only prohibition that I can find is ITCS-16, Section 8.b that states Dealer installed or limited production front/rear spoilers, airdams/wings are prohibited.

This then begs the question, if your spoiler is a limited production piece, why aren't the later model tea tray spoilers also prohibited? Your Sport Package model came standard from the factory with the duck tail (I have the orginial brochure somewhere at home). I am not that familiar with the later models but I did not think all later RX-7s came standard with the tea tray rear spoiler.

I can find nothing in the RX-7 line specs that mentions a rear spoiler type.

I look forward to more discussion on your topic.

Bill Umstead

**ITSRX7** · 08-01-2003, 02:44 PM

We are on the right track.

The Sport Package may have been limited in it's production, but was not "limited production". The difference is that anybody who wanted the Sport Package in 1986 could have had one. That is different than Mazda pre-determining that they would only make 500 of them and then distributing them to the dealer network. Different even if the total production numbers came out the same.

So we are back to the dealer installed option. Anybody have any proof that the Sport Package was delaer installed, and if there isn't, what other info if there out there?

Thanks,

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**Chris Wire** · 08-01-2003, 05:13 PM

Andy,

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Hollywood (Mr. Dana) has had one on his car for as long as I have known him and I don't believe he has ever been protested. If such a protest did indeed go through, it would be news to me and I suppose Marc as well since it's still on his car!

------------------
Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

**ITSRX7** · 08-05-2003, 08:33 AM

Chris,

That is just another reason I think it's legal. However, We are thinking about making a trip to the ARRC this year and want ANY potential for disputes proactively taken care of...

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**dspillrat** · 08-05-2003, 01:42 PM

HI Andy,
Dealer installed is the main concern I'd think.
I have no problem with it,more drag?downforce? Advantage....
Hard to prove either way means legal.

This all from a guy several rows back"me",

Remember, last year 18" made a difference to 2 top drivers.
Depends on focus of tech for this year.

david spillman
#18 SEDIV..Zcar

Originally posted by ITSRX7:

That is just another reason I think it's legal. However, We are thinking about making a trip to the ARRC this year and want ANY potential for disputes proactively taken care of...

AB

[/B]

**ITSRX7** · 08-05-2003, 02:46 PM

You are right Dave, that is the issue. I am looking for someone to provide some facts that disprove my factory documentation.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**MMiskoe** · 08-05-2003, 09:47 PM

Sounds like there is really only one way to find out now - Go win the AARC race & see how any protests are written & if they hold up!!

Is there really an advantage to having it?

**ITSRX7** · 08-06-2003, 08:02 AM

I think the later spoilers you see on all the later RX-7's are a wash at best. They provide no downforce and it's debatable if they actually clean up the air.

The spoiler I run from the Sport package would seem to clean up the air back there. Advantage? Probably no BUT since when did that stop someone from filing a protest when you beat them?

The off-line conversations I have had indicate the piece is as legal as I thought.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**C. Ludwig** · 08-06-2003, 05:18 PM

The entire package (rear spoiler, tear drops in front of the rear wheels and under tray, is supposed to drop around .03 cD off the car. I've got the spoiler on mine and will add the undertray if I ever get around to it and have debated the tear drops but thought those might be asking for a protest. Thoughts?

------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

**Quickshoe** · 08-06-2003, 07:35 PM

Andy,

Can't help you out with the factory/dealer info you are looking for. It would be a shame to loose the ARRC on a lost protest over this.

Like almost every decision made on the track it's a risk vs. reward thing. Run without it and remove all possiblity of a successful protest on the item.

On the other hand, if it was a larger advantage to run with it, I might be more inclined to risk it. I understand all the little things and attention to detail add up.

If you lose by less than a couple of tenths you can curse my advice and I'll buy you a beer.

------------------
Daryl DeArman
I Love RX7's...they taste like chicken

[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited August 07, 2003).]

**Chris Wire** · 08-06-2003, 10:55 PM

Andy,

The spoiler is a FACTORY item, albeit discontinued. I believe the PN is FB01-51601 which has been superceded with the later spoiler which ends in an A. Supercession however, does not mean it's illegal.

------------------
Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

**C. Ludwig** · 08-07-2003, 11:37 PM

Here's a link of a 1986 RX-7 sales brochure. Seems to be proof enough for me.

Read through the different pages. Mazda says the package lowers drag from .31 to .29 and rear lift is reduced.

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/brochure/bro...e.asp?Number=23

And this may be the source of confusion (at least it was for me). I've heard many people describe the Sport Package as the "aero pakcage". I'd seen this ad before, related the two incorrectly and assumed it was dealer installed. Turns out there is a difference between the two as shown in the link.

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/brochure/bro...e.asp?Number=28

------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[This message has been edited by C. Ludwig (edited August 07, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by C. Ludwig (edited August 07, 2003).]

**ITSRX7** · 08-08-2003, 06:55 AM

Thanks! Closed case IMHO.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**Eagle7** · 08-08-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by C. Ludwig:
Here's a link of a 1986 RX-7 sales brochure...

Thanks Chris. I hadn't seen the brochure before - very interesting.

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

**scottj** · 08-14-2003, 05:05 PM

I was selling Mazdas in 85 & 86 and I know that they showed cars in their brochures with after market accessories. I know they did it with the 85 RX-7s, but don't remember if they did with the 86s. They used to show those targa bands and rear spoilers in the brochure, whcih could be purchased thru parts and installed by the dealer, but were not original factory parts.

------------------
Scott J.
85 GSL
85 GSL-SE

08-22-2003, 11:20 PM

whoa guys, this battle has been fought and won on 1st gen pro 7's/ spec 7's out west. all you have to do is produce a mazda microphiche showing that the part could be ordered from factory mazda over the mazda parts counter and it also has to be still readily available in aftermarket form. Dave Lemon at Mazdatrix.com I believe has access to the microphiche, he was involved in the fray out here on the 1st gens.

**Chris Wire** · 08-23-2003, 01:03 PM

I don't recall there being any requirement in the GCR for a part being available in aftermarket form if the factory has discontinued it.

Now you must show that a part is no longer available from the factory if you want to use a readily available aftermarket replacement in circumstances where the OEM part is required.

I don't have my GCR loaded on my laptop, so I can't reference chapter/verse, but that is my recollection.

------------------
Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

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