radiator

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
One of the guys that runs a 1st gen at Blackhawk Farms & other places in the CenDiv has a alum radiator that fits into the OEM location/mounting that has oil cooling within the water radiator. One radiator, not a stack. Ya hook up the water hoses & the oil hoses to the one radiator. 4 conections. I last saw him in May & am looking forward to see how it is working as the weather warms.

Anyone view these in the past?

Hvae Fiun
David

Any more info on how this setup works? I'm planning a cooling system upgrade for my 2nd gen, and this arrangement sounds pretty good.
I talked with Brian McCulloch who makes the Howe radiators, and he sent me the design for a guy from Wisconson (perhaps your contact?), and said he's built 15-20 more for others who've seen it - says everybody loves it. A little pricey at $570 with the heat exchanger, but if it's a solid solution to the oil temp it's probably worth it.

I'm wondering if I need to also run the factory oil cooler, or if the heat exchanger can handle the whole job.

Kirk, since oil coolers can be substituted, if I only need the heat exchanger, I can remove the factory oil cooler, right?

Thanks,
------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[This message has been edited by Eagle7 (edited August 02, 2003).]

[C. Ludwig]

Marty, do you have Brian's contact info? That's who made my rad and some other stuff. Would like to talk to him about some other projects but have lost all the contact info. Dealing with him was a great experience. Can't go wrong IMO.

Don't underestimate the oil cooling needs. Build in all you can.

BTW, you going to be driving at Grattan later in the month?

------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[This message has been edited by C. Ludwig (edited August 02, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by C. Ludwig (edited August 02, 2003).]

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by C. Ludwig:
Marty, do you have Brian's contact info?

http://www.alumrad.com
1-866-ALUMRAD (258-6723)

Did you consider putting a heat exchanger in your radiator? Any reason not to go that way? Seems a lot cleaner (and probably more effective) than trying to mount another oil cooler.

BTW, you going to be driving at Grattan later in the month?
[/B]

Yea! My first race. Hope to see you there. I'll be the guy in the back trying to keep up with the ITB cars.
I passed my second school at Nelson Ledges two weeks ago. Weather was moderate, and water temp was fine, but oil temp was heading past 240 in a couple sessions, so I had to take it easy. Not something I want to have to worry about again.

One of my thoughts is that if the oil/water heat exchanger is effective enough, that the radiator (which would now be cooling the oil) will be better served with the oil cooler out of the way.

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[ddewhurst]

Marty & Chris, the info Dave Damouth posted below is the radiator I was talking about. It was the radiator of Mike Piecko (actually in Toms car but Mike owns it now) who I hang with at Blackhawk Farms. Confirmed the Mike radiator with Dave at Gingerman & Dave is very good with the radiator info. Guys talk to Dave, I like Daves $300 price better than the recent quote of $570. But then when stuff works it gains value. I'll take the $570 over a giveup in a race or a spent motor any day.

****I have a drawing for an aluminum radiator that will fit in the stock 84-85 location. Probably would work with factory hoses, although I'm using generic flex hose so I'm not positive. Has provisions for a heater core/ water to oil intercooler return line, sensors, drain, ect. Requires you to cut the notch for the factory tabs and drill 4 holes for the stock mount, but the fit is great.
www.alumrad.com is the place that makes the radiators for Howe. Cost around $300 to have this one built. If it was Mike Piecko at Blackhawk, this may be the original design I gave him and he had Howe include the oil cooler also.
I run 195 on the hottest days (12a).****

Have Fun
Dvaid

[Greg Gauper]

Marty,

Cngrats on getting your schools out of the way! Good luck at Gratten.

BTW, I did manage to find that stumbling problem. Turns out I ran the fuel return line too close to the fuel pickup line and I was sucking in aerated fuel.

Hope to see you on our side of the pond someday!

[C. Ludwig]

I have the setup I have now because I didn't plan ahead. Decent rad and stock oil cooler isn't enough. Adding a 2nd cooler is easy once I found the place to mount it and how to duct the air. If I were doing it again I'd look into what you're thinking. I can't say enough about Brian. I drew what I wanted, emailed it to him and had the rad on my doorstep four days later.



------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
BTW, I did manage to find that stumbling problem. Turns out I ran the fuel return line too close to the fuel pickup line and I was sucking in aerated fuel.

Wow, good catch. I put my return line into the surge tank, and was advised to move it because the return fuel would be hot.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Hope to see you on our side of the pond someday!</font>

Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Road America on 8/16 doesn't work because of car prep schedule and my son's wedding. How's Blackhawk in October? Probably 50/50 to be cold and rainy. I'm leaning toward M-O instead, but don't know yet.

BTW, do I get a regional license after two (successful) races (double event), or two weekends?

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[C. Ludwig]

Two races.

------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[ddewhurst]

Marty, last year the mid Oct race at the Farm was sunny cool & crisp.

Have Fun
David

[Eagle7]

I got a 2" two-pass cross flow radiator with integrated oil heat exchanger from Bryan at www.alumrad.com for $570. He forgot to add the mounting flanges, but he's reimbursing me for a having them put on locally. The radiator is beautiful.

I converted to steel braided AN-10 oil plumbing, and ran from the front of the engine to the upper radiator fitting, from the lower radiator fitting to the upper factory cooler fitting, and from the lower factory cooler fitting to the rear of the engine - three 90 degree hose ends and three 120 degree. Very clean hose runs. Oil pressure measured at the filter appears to be down only 1 or 2 PSI, so I'm satisfied with the series connection.

Tested yesterday at Gingerman. Temperature in the low to mid eighties. Four 20 minute sessions with 20 minute breaks. Water temp measured at the water pump outlet held steady at about 205. Oil temp measured at the filter held steady at about 200. Electric fan running the whole time. With the prior arrangement I had to back off when my oil temp was still rising past 240 on a cooler day, so I'm pleased.

Grattan next week. Wohoo!

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[This message has been edited by Eagle7 (edited August 20, 2003).]

[alberto_mg]

Anyone else have any other sources of good custom radiator shops? I googled a bunch but figured I&#39;d ask anyway. Thanks.

[tdw6974]

Anyone else have any other sources of good custom radiator shops? I googled a bunch but figured I&#39;d ask anyway. Thanks.
[/b]

We have a shop that can build you any type you need. We had one bult last year and I will see him in the next few days you can specfy inlet and outlet sizes we added a spal fan with manual control. Will be working on oil cooler setup over the winter. He builds radistors for Super modifieds all over the Northeast. His welding is a work of art. Tom Weaver

[ddewhurst]

Alberto, the radiator Marty has cools the oil within the water cooling radiator. I know of two guys who have these type radiators in 1st gen RX-7 ITA cars & several that have the same radiator in E Production street ported cars that run in Kanass & all work well. Hot oil KILLS rotor motors.

Have Fun
David

[bldn10]

This HAS to be one of the longest running threads on this forum 3 1/2 years!

[C. Ludwig]

This HAS to be one of the longest running threads on this forum 3 1/2 years!
[/b]

That&#39;s what I thought! Back from the deadly.

[alberto_mg]

I searched and found some good info so I figured why belabor it by starting a new thread.

Bryan at AlumRad sounded cool but pricey (about as much as a Ron Davis) so I&#39;m doing some research b4 spending my hard earned money. Called a few other places today. If anyone has any other source to share, please do.


FYI - This is for an FD used as a street/HPDE car btw. Doing a custom rad/intercooler combo. Oil coolers are independent so I&#39;m not concerned about that. Hopefully, my skills will be up to par in 1-2 years and I&#39;ll be joining you in IT.

Thanks for the input

[Eagle7]

Alberto, the radiator Marty has cools the oil within the water cooling radiator. I know of two guys who have these type radiators in 1st gen RX-7 ITA cars & several that have the same radiator in E Production street ported cars that run in Kanass & all work well. Hot oil KILLS rotor motors.

Have Fun
David

[/b]

And it worked really great until the heat exchanger in the radiator decided to spring a leak - water in the oil, oil in the water, and toast for an engine. I&#39;m not the only one that happened to. Now I keep my oil and water separate.

[ddewhurst]

Dam Marty. I had not read in any of your previous postst that this had happened. I was thinking about getting one.

Thanks for the info
David

[C. Ludwig]

I searched and found some good info so I figured why belabor it by starting a new thread.

Bryan at AlumRad sounded cool but pricey (about as much as a Ron Davis) so I&#39;m doing some research b4 spending my hard earned money. Called a few other places today. If anyone has any other source to share, please do.
FYI - This is for an FD used as a street/HPDE car btw. Doing a custom rad/intercooler combo. Oil coolers are independent so I&#39;m not concerned about that. Hopefully, my skills will be up to par in 1-2 years and I&#39;ll be joining you in IT.

Thanks for the input
[/b]

For an FD, unless you want to get real trick, it&#39;s hard to beat the Koyo N-Flow. It&#39;s a three pass, twin core rad. It&#39;s the only drop in multi pass radiator for the FD that I know of. IMO you won&#39;t find anything "custom" that will top it in a twin core. You&#39;d need to start stepping up into a 3-row to gain anything.

Another thing to keep in mind with the FD is intercooling. The downfall of those cars is cooling in general. If you are serious look for the best intercooler you can afford, vent the hood, and look to do a good oil cooler upgrade. Even the twin R1 coolers could stand to be better.

I&#39;m about to begin a 20B FD project for myself and I have nightmares about how I&#39;m going to do the cooling system!

[alberto_mg]

Thanks.

C. Ludwig - I&#39;m doing a custom V-mount intercooler and radiator setup. Reading through lots of old posts on various forums for turbo rotaries and race rotaries makes me believe that the V-mount setup is the most reliable way to cool both air and water. I&#39;ve read posts from old track junkies (Cossie was one) where they were easily able to manage temps using the FD for Group 1 HPDE events even using a regular single pass Koyo and an HKS v mount IC for example.

PM me or shoot me an email if you want to share ideas or research.

Cheers.