323 Question

[Boswoj]

Well - in reference to "buying someone elses mistakes" if 10 percent of a running racecar is screwed up then you are 90 percent better than starting your own build. I still intend to build my own ( I have two in progress in the garage!) 323 hit upon what I ended up doing. I bought that ready to race Rx-7 and am racing it and working out those "someone elses mistakes" as I go, that way the driver and the car develop at the same time. The car I started building is a fine parts car. It's a great idea to buy an already prepped race car that is the same model as the one you wanted to build in the first place. A nice roadworthy parts car is better than a factory manual when you need to see how something is supposed to look when you put it back together.....(what! that thing can't possibly go between those other two? I don't remember it looking like that when I tore it apart!)

[Boswoj]

Oh - and 323LX - I hope you don't take any of this thread as critical of you! Welcome to the forum, and good luck whether you buy OR build. Everyone here has an opinion, but racers are some of the nicest, most helpful guys (and gals) that you will ever meet. Hope to see you racing soon!

[Boswoj]

OK - I know, poor form to post three in a row, but I found this in EMRA's garage sale:

Race Car: ITB Mazda 323 - Great entry level regional or school car. New Simpson harness, tires have 2 races and the engine is strong. Has many new and used parts including engine, transmission and chassis parts. Teched in 2001. Has done a 1:06 at LRP. Loads of fun at low cost. $2200/BO or will consider trade. Contact [email protected] or call David at 860-233-5155.
Listed as of 10-23-01

How could anyone possibly build a track ready car for less than that? What do you think 323LX? They are definitly out there if you are willing to spend some time looking.

[Knestis]

Ding! We have a winner!

K

[John Herman]

Ok, let's help 323lx look into buying the advertised car (and I mean this constructively). Some of the things I would recommend you check. First, because you have knowledge of the 323, check all the known rust prone areas. I would steer clear of any structural rust cars. Second, review the log book and any race results for the car. I have kept most of mine and would proudly show them to a prospective buyer. Third, check for updated safety items and general compliance to the rules; is the cage correct for the class, are the safety belts updated, are all the frontend pieces correct, etc. With the cage, some race series have slightly different cage requirements than IT. Some people (who are not familiar with IT rules), will inadvertantly sell the car as, "would make a great IT car!" However, the cage may have too many mounting points, or goes through the firewall. All correctable, but can require a lot of work. Give the car a general mechanical going over. Brakes, bearings, engine, transmission. Realize that race cars need maintenance, and you will be going through all the components eventually. Finally, I always thought that if I bought a used race car, I would want to buy it as it came off the track so I knew what it was capable of. Either that or, offer to pay for a open track test day (offered by many car clubs for $100-$200), and have the owner flog the car for you. If possible, take it out yourself. I think it would be the best money spent.

[323LX]

First of all, I wasnt taking this as 'criticizing' me... I was considering this extremely helpful advice...That 323 for sale sounds really good...Can you tell me exactly where its located?? And you already answered my next question which was what to look for in a used race car...However, I'm starting to feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. I think I'm going to wait until I get my GCR before I look at buying (or building, for that matter) a car. I think you guys are right about buying over building, at least intially. After considering all of the advice you guys have given me, I think I would much rather be driving than building. So, what I'm thinking about is finding a used IT-B 323 to get me some experience in the seat. I'll hang on to my street 323, and maybe eventually I can build it up...or at least definitely use it for spare parts (and reference, as suggested ) Thanks again for all of your help!

[F Prod 323]

O.K. I've read all posts so far in this thread, and I'll 'fess up to being the reason this nice young guy has been asking so many questions. I check in with the 323 Forum from time to time, 'cuz I'm currently building an LP FP Mazda 323 and hoped to learn a little bit about the car at that site. I've talked up SCCA, from both driving and worker standpoints.

This is my first SCCA race car (although I built my share of drag race cars back in high school - during the second ice age - first in Stock, then in Gas and then in Altered - and that Ford V8-powered Crosley Pick-up was a wheel-standin' handfull!)

Anyway, yeah, I'm building rather than buying. But I have reasons. First, I am also a worker - Chief of Sound Control in Florida Region and an F&C type in Central Florida Region. I have been watching the different classes and the different marques in each class for several years. I decided which class and which marque and started out by buying two 323 hatchbacks for $400.

Now I, too, had been warned to buy rather than build. But a couple of workers that I know have bought, only to have to replace or rework much or most of what they bought. (Like a roll cage that looked good, but at the initial tech inspection was found to be the wrong material, the wrong diameter and the wrong wall thickness. There was also some question as to the qualifications of the welder, based on a couple of the welds.) And
there were other problems as well.

I watched the race results in "Sports Car" every month for two and a half years after deciding I wanted to go out and play. I saw no 323's in the results for ITB or FP in that time (I had decided on the 323 since my daily driver is a Festiva - sister engine that I have experience with - and I've been an FWD guy since my first 850 Mini in '66.)

My professional life as an industrial design is all about product development, anyway, and to develop a race car has just been a lot of fun so far. Yeah, there have been headaches, setbacks, mistakes, etc., but that's part of development and I'm used to it -- it's been part of my life for over 30 years.

Sure it'll take me a while to finish and get out on the track. Sure it'll cost me more to build than to buy. But . . . my money will be spent in many (smaller, affordable) increments, and when I'm done, I'll know EXACTLY what I have, why it is the way it is and how it went together.

So go easy on 323LX. He's young, he's interested, and soon, some of you guys in CENDIV will have a new playmate!

In the meantime, I'll make sure that you guys know what's on the track in front of you, or if you have a mechanicl problem which requires a visit to the pits . . . and making sure that none of you go over the allowable decibel limit. Know what it is, guys? I always surprized by the number of drivers that come and ask me when I catch them over in practice or qualifying!!

Read your GCR -- it's in there . . . and it's often in the Supps for the event, too (but who reads THEM!!)

[backformore]

323LX, you must read this!!

First, my opinion. Buy a car. You can build another while you are racing.

Second, regardless of whether you build or buy, find someone who is knowledgeable about IT to help you make decisions. Also, YOU must be COMPLETELY familiar with the GCR and ITCS. There are plenty of people out there who will give you advice and sell you their cars who are completely ignorant of the rules.

Now for the important part. In regards to:
------------------------------------------

Race Car: ITB Mazda 323 - Great entry level regional or school car. New Simpson harness, tires have 2 races and the engine is strong. Has many new and used parts including engine, transmission and chassis parts. Teched in 2001. Has done a 1:06 at LRP. Loads of fun at low cost. $2200/BO or will consider trade. Contact [email protected] or call David at 860-233-5155.
Listed as of 10-23-01

How could anyone possibly build a track ready car for less than that? What do you think 323LX? They are definitly out there if you are willing to spend some time looking.

______---------------------------------------

I went to Hartford (where the car is located) in December. David was very nice and he made me glad to be getting back into racing. He also knew nothing about IT racing. He has a very nice production Spitfire that he has raced for years. His son races World Challenge. They bought the car to do a local IT Enduro Series at LRP. Neither has any previous IT experience.

THE CAR IS NOT, NOT, NOT LEGAL FOR IT!!!!!!

It might pass tech in LRP, but it would not even come close in the southeast.

The car has been backed into a wall before and the left rear corner and hatch have been tweaked pretty bad. As a result, the stock rear glass would not fit. So someone replaced it with Lexan. Not legal. This was the most glaring problem but it seems that there were several others like headlights removed and replaced with covers "like the World Challenge car". I don't believe anyone was trying to screw me, they just didn't know any better.

In conclusion, it is critcal that you know the rules and also try to find a tech inspector who will assist you with a prepurchase inspection.

Also, if you buy a "cheap" car you are going to have the same problems as if the build a "cheap" car. Neither will be inexpensive. However, if you are knowledgeable, you can get a very good car for LOTS less than it would cost to build one and still have the option to build a second car for the experience. I keep threatening to do this, but the building budget buys a lot of tires and entry fees and don't clutter up the garage as bad.

Rory

PS I did find a great deal on an RX7 and I bought it. I paid more than twice as much as for the 323, but I got a much better value.

[Silkworm]

** I already have X dollars sunk into this project - it would be stupid to not spend whatever it takes to finish it. (Remember the hemorrhage of money before the first school? Drunken sailors got nothin' on someone with a novice permit in his hands!)

YEOUCH That HUUUURT!

Zing! Yeah, I'm falling into that category.. 400 for rotors, another 250 for pads, oh hell, 150 for front calipers.. Ugh ugh ugh.

PaulC

[Knestis]

Oddly, North Carolina Region includes a picture of a 323 on its web site (http://www.ncrscca.com/) - it's one of those random image things, so go to the link and refresh until you see it...

Kirk